en-us Sat, 07 Nov 2009 10:16:09 +0200 webmaster@reloadersnest.com 60 Reloader's Nest Forum http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/ Reloader's Nest Forum http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/../ http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/images/oxlerss.gif Reloader's Nest Forum RSS Feed 125 17 Fort Hood IraqVet2003@oxle.com http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=12227&REPLY_ID=86296 The Campfire Sat, 07 Nov 2009 10:10:39 +0200 http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12227 Quote:
determinded451, we as service men and women dont ask for anything more than what you just described, very well I might add. That kind of support is what make the crap all worth while. Thank you. Vet]]> Load Work for 338Win Mag fishstan2@oxle.com http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=12211&REPLY_ID=86295 General forum Sat, 07 Nov 2009 09:12:49 +0200 http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12211 Quote:
IMR4350, I would be intrested in the RL-17 data, if and when you get the chance, by the way give your sholder a break. You should try the Caldwell Led Sled, "Man" what a good product. Stan[8D]]]> WTB - Parts for old Lyman Spar-T press don 3@oxle.com http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=12233&REPLY_ID=86291 Buy Sat, 07 Nov 2009 08:08:08 +0200 http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12233 Quote:
I have 3 new in box Lyman "auto-primer feed" if interested I could post photo and come up with a shipped price.

Don]]> Trimmer pilots F. Guffey@oxle.com http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=12235&REPLY_ID=86290 Equipment Sat, 07 Nov 2009 08:07:27 +0200 http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12235 Quote:
When to trim? Trim to what? Before or after? I would say based on my the pilots size trim before sizing, it is more about opinion than logic, when I use the hand crank trimmer with the pilots that never fit, I trim first, that way the pilots always fit and there has to be a reason after all RCBS made the neck sizer and the trimmer pilot,why would RCBS build failure in to a produce, after sizing the pilot is too tight and sizing the neck down lengthens the neck and pulling the sizer ball through the neck shortens it, I trim first, more times than not I use a form/trim die FIRST, the form die is not a full length sizer.

F. Guffey]]> Gilding Metal Wolfgang@oxle.com http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=12206&REPLY_ID=86289 General forum Sat, 07 Nov 2009 07:33:17 +0200 http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12206 Quote:
Okay, I got one question via PM so I'll start with that one...
quote:
Why is gilding metal superior to just copper in jackets. Some of the bullet manufacturers tout it like it's better in some way.
Why are J4 jackets considered superior, especially amoung the benchrest crowd.


Can you say "sales hype"? Right off the top of my head I can likely name more than a dozen high-copper alloys that will function quite well as general purpose expanding bullet jacket material. Add to that at least another dozen copper and non-copper alloys that also function great too. Bullet construction is not limited to simply figuring out a shape, it is the whole package from end to end and thus requires mating properly selected alloys with properly engineered designs. Since there is no listing of "J4" alloy in any of the standards for high-copper alloys, nor any other alloy for that matter, one can safely assume that it is purely a fictional designation applied to a common gilding metal alloy that is more likely than not to be common Cu95/Zn5 likely with some trace elements as a pure bi-alloy would be excessively expensive. Zinc and other alloying elements are added to copper to change its mechanical properties, more often than not, the common 95/5 alloy is selected because it's readily available and used in many different industries with the electrical industry being the biggest user. 95/5 is known as one of the basic alloys providing a good balance between work hardening and increasing the ductile strength and corrosion resistance of copper without having a great detrimental effect on the heat & current carrying capacity of the finished product. Just a little FYI, nickel is also alloyed in low proportion to copper such as the Cu95-99/N1-5 alloys that retain the common copper color but greatly increase the strength and abrasion resistance again without having a detrimental effect on the electrical properties (notable that some of these alloys also contain trace and additional alloying elements like aluminum, magnesium and phosphorus.

Without going to novel-length here, the process of forming the bullet jackets imparts a certain amount of work hardening to the alloy and the key is to get the hardness desired without getting it so hard that it becomes brittle and thus is why 95/5 is well suited to the application. The harder the jacket material, the thinner it can be made without loosing its ability to control expansion. Likewise, a softer jacket alloy can easily be used with a harder alloy lead core to achieve the same exact after-impact results. This is not commonly done because this process requires tighter alloy and process controls as well as higher final forming pressures that would slow and increase the cost of production. Also consider the fact that you're working with a certain level of tolerance in all aspects of the shooting game from bore & groove diameters to loading dies and the bullets themselves. When you buy a box of bullets, you're buying bullets that are made to a "nominal size" not an "exact size" - buy ten boxes from ten different lots of any caliber bullets and measure each one accurately to the 0.000X position and you'll find considerable variations in diameter alone. Accurately weigh them to the 0.0X position and you'll also find considerable variations in weight. By "accurate weight and measure" I mean you must use tools that allow for such accuracy, the common calipers and balances sold for reloading purposes quite frankly suck for tight accuracy, the typical digital reloading balance is not anywhere near accurate enough for this purpose, a "half-decent" digital balance will set you back $800, a "good one" will lighten your pocket by almost $2k, and a "real good one" starts around $3.5k so don't expect reasonable weight accuracy from anything under $500 and that doesn't come with a certification guarantee. Same with measuring tools, the $25-30 calipers will suffice for non-critical work but if you really want decent repeatable accuracy, prepare to drop at least $500 for vernier caliper/micrometer. Quite honestly, there's no point in doing such, because we fall back on the allowable level of accuracy for a given task - however - if you're weighing & measuring bullets with what's considered "half-decent" tooling for reloading operations and you're seeing variations, you know for sure that you're playing with much wider tolerances than you expected to see.

What this all boils down to here is that companies using a slightly harder jacket material can make claims such as; less fouling, better consistency and so forth because the bullet is not responding to every little quirk of the loading and shooting operation. Whereas a pure Cu jacket will produce more fouling in a bore that isn't smooth enough, the harder gilding metal jackets will allow more blow-by before they'll start gas-cutting and will pass through rougher bores without depositing as much fouling ... the same can be said for jackets made from other alloys as well so no, there is no definable advantage to using a particular alloy for bullet jackets to be used for general purpose applications.

quote:
With so many types of guilding metal, do you know if different manufacturers use different types in current manufacture brass? If so, is there a longevity benefit to any of them?


Typical cartridge brass is 68.5% - 71.5% copper, 29% - 32% zinc with the balance made up of the typical trace elements Fe & Pb. Again, just as with bullet jackets, the particular application is what determins the viability of a particular alloy being better suited to the use. Higher Fe content makes for harder brass that will often see shorter life spans if it is subjected to FL or otherwise excessive size changing operations. Ni plated brass is the most common that is known for sizing stress failure attributed to excessive/repeated sizing. Higher Pb content will tolerate sizing better but will also pressure deform and stretch more. For instance, UNS C33000/MIL T-46072 is a "leaded" brass alloy containing 65-68% Cu with 0.25-0.7% lead and up to 0.07% iron and zinc as the balance. This alloy has excellent cold working properties but a "poor" rating for machinability making it a great choice for low-med pressure rounds that are commonly subjected to repeated sizings. On the other hand, alloys with a higher hardening alloy content can also be better suited to high pressure applications where the amount of sizing is limited. The particular alloys used for cartridges varies greatly and more often than not, the primary concern to the mfg is not longevity but the cost of mfg'ing. If the brass must be repeatedly subject to annealing operations at different stages of forming, this greatly increases the cost whereas if the chosen alloy requires only one or no annealing operations during the forming process, it saves the company a lot of money and quite frankly they don't care if you don't get any reloads out of it because all that matters is that it survives the first firing with some room for error.

quote:
After the heat treat process with GS, does the color change?


Yes and no. (I sound like a congressman there don't I?) LOL At the risk of sounding like a broken record, it depends on the particular alloy, manner of heating & cooling, length of time held at temperature ....... If you use too high of temps or too long of an exposure, you can cook the alloy changing both color and properties. Open flame heating can surely cause exterior heat/scorch discoloration as well as alloy discoloration from cooking it. Absolutely it is best to anneal GS in a vacuum or atmospherically controlled furnace and quench in de-min/pure distilled water or other inert quenching medium but for most of us, that just isn't a feasible process so the alternative is to watch your temperature and exposure time carefully staying within the known parameters of the given GS alloy and then following-up with the necessary surface cleaning & polishing process. Can you intentionally change the color of GS, yes you can and no I have not studied up on the different processes required to obtain given effects because it is an art within itself.]]> pros on prusuit channel Lee C.@oxle.com http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=12236&REPLY_ID=86288 General forum Sat, 07 Nov 2009 07:11:18 +0200 http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12236 Quote:
E.J. it is a sad day when they come out on tv and call those guys pros. Ten2six is right all they are is salesmen not hunters. And i see mikes point about renting out hes land to make a few bucks to help get by. How can you call a guy a pro when the land owner takes a guy out where a big buck is running. Or on a feeder and sets him there to weight for that deer to come in. They don't have shows of hunting on public land. cause them so called pros couldn't fine there a$$ with both hands.

I was very lucky in life as an old trapper was kind enough to teach me how to trap and learn how to under stand what ever your after and why animals do what they do. This was back in the 50's at the age of 9 years old. Now i'm like most old guys that are stell around from the 40's and 50's it's just great to be out there and be able to enjoy ever minet of it if you shot a deer or not.

53 year's as a trapper 45 year's hunting O 4 of them year's i gave to the ARMY. It is sad to see the way thing are going for us how loves the out door's.

All them years hunting and trapping and i'm stell learning. when you here a guy is a pro, that means he knows evey thing there is to know about some thing. Thats the bigest bunch of BS going. Those are the people i stay away from. Just go out and enjoy the out doors and take a young boy or girl and get them hooked. That's the best part of this when you get my age. Have a good day.]]> .308 norma mag doodle@oxle.com http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=11929&REPLY_ID=86287 Big game loads Sat, 07 Nov 2009 07:02:56 +0200 http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11929 Quote:
Well i got the 308 dies ect all set up to make 308 brass And ended up with a lot of ruined cases!!!! Can anyone give a step by step guide to a self confessed dumbo! on the process???]]> Growing Meat twud@oxle.com http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12239 General forum Sat, 07 Nov 2009 05:28:30 +0200 http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12239
I can't believe that anyone would believe that meat is "grown in the back". This came from a left coast newspaper.]]> Badger Ordnance - any good? high score@oxle.com http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=12203&REPLY_ID=86285 General forum Sat, 07 Nov 2009 03:26:07 +0200 http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12203 Quote:
brian0714, my AW is a 300 winmag so it has the extra grunt to reach 1000 yard distances. It is zeroed at 200 yards and oddly enough is not great at 100 yards!! Rails I currently use are Nightforce 20moa for my 308 which carry NXS scopes so I may look at them again as well. I like the AW which absorbs a lot of the recoil due to its weight but it is also carrying a Bruger Thomett moderator on the end. Adds a lot to the weight but recoil is greatly reduced.
Will let you know what I end up with.

HS]]> Shot my first handloads today! ten2six@oxle.com http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=-1&TOPIC_ID=12175&REPLY_ID=86283 General forum Sat, 07 Nov 2009 02:37:59 +0200 http://www.reloadersnest.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12175 Quote:
Hey Avy,

Usually with rifles, "keyholing" means putting bullets through the target sideways. No crisp, nice hole...more oblong and jagged. If that's what's happening with your third group, your load is leading to an unstable spin. The Howa 1500 .243 comes with 1 in 10" twist, is that correct? If you're really getting keyholing, and you can't seem to find a good load with the 85 gr bullets, you may want to try 90's or 100's. I'll often go to the Lilja barrel site to check their charts (I'll put the link below).

If you meant to say two in one hole and a flyer, then keep trying to get a good load with the 85's. When I work up a "pet load" for a gun, I'll load 3 - 5 rounds with .1 gr load differences. I've seen swings inbetween the .5 gr you're using. Some will disagree with that, but that's what I do (and it's fun to shoot more).

Another tip, you can buy Snap Caps (dummy .243 cartridges that protect your firing pin), so you can practice shooting technique inbetween range sessions. Anyway, here's the Lilja link with the twist rate and suggested bullet charts:

http://www.riflebarrels.com/products/caliber_twist_rates.htm]]>