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 .556 into .223 Questions
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angle-0f-attack
Average Member

USA
103 Posts

Posted - Nov 21 2009 :  17:18:26  Show Profile Send angle-0f-attack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What (if any) are the ins-and-outs of reloading .556 into .223?

Resize with .223 die, trim, swage primer pocket and reload normally as if they were .223?

Is there a case capacity difference between .556 and .223?

I'm planning on trying RCBS's primer pocket swager combo for use in a single stage press. If anyone has any experience with this I'd like some input. I know the Dillon Super Swager is prolly the way to go but $27 for RCBS as opposed to $100 for Dillon is causing me to try the RCBS.

Any info is appreciated.

300RUM
Average Member



USA
156 Posts

Posted - Nov 21 2009 :  19:34:41  Show Profile Send 300RUM a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well I'm no expert but it's my understanding that 5.56 and .223 are the same except 5.56 are loaded hotter because a 5.56 chamber is slightly different (I think it's in the throat).

The case dimensions are the same except that anything stamped 5.56 is probably a military cartridge and usually have thicker walls/webbing and less capacity so start at minimum and work up.

There are some others here with alot of knowledge of this cartridge but this is my understanding.

Rob
"The said constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." Samuel Adams
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fishstan2
Advanced Member



USA
2314 Posts

Posted - Nov 22 2009 :  04:43:28  Show Profile  Send fishstan2 a Yahoo! Message Send fishstan2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here is a pretty good indepth answer. I hope this helps. But to answer the short way I have shot both 223 and 5.56x45 out of my bolt guns and AR-15's. Stan


http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/ar15-m16/68604-223-remington-vs-5-56x45.html

WILLIAMS, STANLEY W.
CSM JBLM
"I SAY SHOOTEM FROM LONG RANGE"
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oneokie
Advanced Member

USA
909 Posts

Posted - Nov 22 2009 :  10:09:34  Show Profile Send oneokie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
With the RCBS Primer Pocket Swager, you need to seperate you cases by headstamp. Different makes of brass have different thickness in the web.

Follow the instructions that came with the swager and make small adjustments to the depth of the rod that goes in the case, otherwise you will bend the rod.

Dumb can be overcome, but Stupid goes on forever.
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F. Guffey
Advanced Member

USA
690 Posts

Posted - Nov 22 2009 :  11:55:14  Show Profile  Visit F. Guffey's Homepage Send F. Guffey a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Angle-of-attack, then there are those that have suggested using a pocket knife.
After firing the .556 becomes a .223, if there is a difference measure the case head thickness and weigh, forget the part where military cases are thicker because they are heavier, that assumption is only a half truth, with 30/06 military case head thickness is .200, commercial case head thickness is .260 and the military is heavier, how does thinner make it heavier?

F. Guffey

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angle-0f-attack
Average Member

USA
103 Posts

Posted - Nov 23 2009 :  09:28:35  Show Profile Send angle-0f-attack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by oneokie

With the RCBS Primer Pocket Swager, you need to seperate you cases by headstamp. Different makes of brass have different thickness in the web.

Follow the instructions that came with the swager and make small adjustments to the depth of the rod that goes in the case, otherwise you will bend the rod.



Thanks for all input guys.

I've heard about the rod bending with the RCBS and the seperating of the headstamps to cure it. Would I have to do this with the Dillon Super Swager?....or ALL swagers for that matter?

I've had great results using 26 grns of W748 for the "commercial cases" and I figure I might drop down to 25.5grns for the military just to be on safe safe side....?

I'm shooting steel targets out of AR under 300yrds.

Edited by - angle-0f-attack on Nov 23 2009 09:33:14
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slabsides45
Average Member

USA
109 Posts

Posted - Dec 06 2009 :  01:00:02  Show Profile Send slabsides45 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I haven't reloaded any 5.56, so that should be my initial statement I suppose. I've always heard that you can shoot a .223 out of a 5.56, but that you CAN encounter issues shooting 5.56 out of a .223. I've avoided it, so haven't had any issues.
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F. Guffey
Advanced Member

USA
690 Posts

Posted - Dec 06 2009 :  12:01:42  Show Profile  Visit F. Guffey's Homepage Send F. Guffey a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Slbsides, I use the RCBS case prep center with 5 stations, the cost is about the same as the Dillon but has more utility, it does not come complete with all accessories,

I do not have the Dillon, I do have three different tools that remove the crimp plus the pocket knife. If I designed a tool that removed the crimp on all military cases I would first determine the amount of effort required first then design the tool with an adjustable means to relieve the effort applied as with a spring that would start to compress at X number of pounds, this would reduce stress on parts, when the ram reached the end of it's travel a switch could be added that would close and turn on a light to let the operator know when to quit applying pressure, with the RCBS tool the tool bends after the operation is complete, the insistence of the person to keep apply pressure until the ram reaches the top is the cause of rendering tools scrap, plus the maximum effort in leverage is accomplished when the reaches the top of it;s travel and as a results puts the press into a bind.

I do not know if the Dillon has an mechanical means of adjusting the amount of effort. if it does, set it and forget it.

F. Guffey
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F. Guffey
Advanced Member

USA
690 Posts

Posted - Dec 06 2009 :  12:04:53  Show Profile  Visit F. Guffey's Homepage Send F. Guffey a Private Message  Reply with Quote
...the ram reaches the top of it's travel....

Sorry about that,

F. Guffey
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threefeathers
Starting Member

USA
6 Posts

Posted - Dec 06 2009 :  12:47:29  Show Profile Send threefeathers a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi. I have both the RCBS case mate and the Dillon Swager. They are both excellent products I use the Dillon when I've decided to sit down and decrimp more than a hundred pieces of brass. The Trim Mate when it is under a hundred. The trim mate has other uses that make it a best buy.

Scouts Out
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F. Guffey
Advanced Member

USA
690 Posts

Posted - Dec 06 2009 :  13:05:28  Show Profile  Visit F. Guffey's Homepage Send F. Guffey a Private Message  Reply with Quote
threefeathers, I agree, when 'time-in-motion' is added as a factor the RCBS case prep center has an advantage, pick up the case, flip it once and preform 5 task without setting the case down, as to the 100 cases, removing the crimp by holding the case may not develop character, it does improve ones grip.

F. Guffey
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Evad
Advanced Member



USA
1333 Posts

Posted - Dec 06 2009 :  19:41:33  Show Profile Send Evad a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I reload them all the time, I just use a case chamfer-debur tool. A couple of twists and the crimp is gone, I use the Lee chamfer tool. As for reloading them, I use .223 reloading data out of the books, I have never had to lower the powder charge for military cases. Some say the brass is thicker in military cases, and to lower the charge, but I have not found this to be true of the .556 cases.
Dave

I never met a gun I didn't like.
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manyplews
Average Member



USA
139 Posts

Posted - Dec 17 2009 :  20:01:07  Show Profile Send manyplews a Private Message  Reply with Quote
this is better than the RCBS:
http://www.ch4d.com/

under "Priming Tools"

419001 Primer Pocket Swager $ 21.17

swages the military crimp on both .223 and .308/30/06 brass

Orders: 740-397-7214

I have an old Lachmiller of the same design that I bought in 1965.
I've used it on a couple thousand '06 brass. It has been a great tool so I've ordered one of these for 5.56 GI brass.
The Lake City 5.56 may be slightly heavier than commercial .223 brass,but I've used the same data for both in my AR.

The older I get,the better I used to be!
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manyplews
Average Member



USA
139 Posts

Posted - Dec 17 2009 :  20:07:45  Show Profile Send manyplews a Private Message  Reply with Quote
BTW- if you're loading for an AR,primer cup hardness is important due to the fact that the floating firing pin,can occasionally cause "slamfires" when the bolt chambers the cartridge if the primer cup is "soft".
I've been using the old,plated Winchester primers and CCI primers,with no problems.The new Winchester primers are not plated and I don't know if they are as hard as the old,white-box primers.
CCI also makes a #41 primer that is designed for AR's.

The older I get,the better I used to be!
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