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Hockeynick39
Advanced Member



USA
3738 Posts

Posted - Jun 22 2011 :  12:15:45  Show Profile  Send Hockeynick39 an AOL message Send Hockeynick39 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have a friend that has asked me to load him some .44 Remington Magnum loads for the fall bear season. I have looked at powders and have decided on VV N110, H110, or Ramshot Enforcer as possible candidates with standard large pistol primers. I don't know what the barrel length on his pistol yet, but he says that it is a Ruger Super Blackhawk and those range from 7 1/2" to 10". Also looking at trying to get to 1600 fps, if possible, but would be extremely happy with something in the middle 1500's. I'm going to be showing him how to reloads these too, so we'll see what happens from here.

Bobo7mmmag
Advanced Member

2578 Posts

Posted - Jun 22 2011 :  18:00:37  Show Profile Send Bobo7mmmag a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I take it you are looking at 240 grain bullets for those kind of velocities?

What kind and size of bears are we talking about? Over bait short range? What Temps?

The 240 grain Speer Gold Dot FP and HP are relatively short for weight and leave plenty of room for powder. H110 would most likely give the highest velocity with them two and would require a Mag primer.

Long for weight bullets like the Barnes all copper, Nosler Partition HG and Sierra HC reduce the volume enough that Ramshot Enforcer would work better. Below freezing temps a Mag primer would be a cheap insurance policy against a miss fire.

VV N110 is somewhat fluffy and would take all the volume up prior to getting near those velocities.
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Shastaboat
Advanced Member

USA
5342 Posts

Posted - Jun 22 2011 :  18:39:57  Show Profile Send Shastaboat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I shoot 23 gr. of H110 with 240 gr jacketed SP. Chronoes at 1425 fps in my S&W mod 29 6" Actually I prefer a hardcast SWC 245 gr. with 22 gr of 2400 at 1590 fps.
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Kansas Ed
Advanced Member



USA
1206 Posts

Posted - Jun 22 2011 :  20:16:23  Show Profile  Visit Kansas Ed's Homepage Send Kansas Ed a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Years ago (back when it was Hercules) they used to list favorite silhouette loads in their reloaders guide. For the 44M with a 240gr bullet they listed 19.5 gr of 2400 for a velocity of 1450. I see they don't list that load anymore...nor do they offer silhouette loading data. But it is 2.5gr under their recommended load now. I used it with Speer 240gr FP bullets and it's very accurate to 200M in my Ruger SBH. It's the load I still use today.

Many people use H110, and seem to have good results with it. But my experience points to irregular velocities from lot to lot when it spans years. Rumor had it that H110 used to be WW296..don't know about that one way or another, but something to keep in mind, as WW296 has a sorted reputation. No comment on that either...just relaying information.

One thing is certain...2400 is a VERY universal powder for a number of cartridges, and has a reputation for working well in cast bullet loads in medium rifle cases. It is also one of the old standby's for the Hornet and Bee. Years ago, it was THE standard 44M powder.

Ed

Are we there yet???

Edited by - Kansas Ed on Jun 22 2011 20:17:43
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Hockeynick39
Advanced Member



USA
3738 Posts

Posted - Jun 23 2011 :  08:58:01  Show Profile  Send Hockeynick39 an AOL message Send Hockeynick39 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I talked to him last night and he actually has the Ruger Super Redhawk with the 9 1/2" barrel, so the velocities with those powders I listed are a real possibility (at least in the 1550 fps neighborhood). I will also talk to him about using a 300 grain XTP for the black bear (that's all we have in the NE US right now). He is zeroed currently for 75 yds which means about a 30" drop at 200 yds if the muzzle velocity is around 1360 fps. My guess is with the woods and mountains we have up here the shot will be 50 yds and less.
Also understand the necessity for the mag primers if using a ball powder vs. flake and for the extreme below zero temperatures. However the temperatures at the time we can hunt fall bears it is in the 40's to 50's during the day with temps around the 10's - 20's at night. Usually during the coldest part of the year that we can hunt, it is primitive (ML and bow) only.

Bobo,
I use N340 and it is kind of granular, and from what you are saying N110 is more like a shotgun powder (flake type). I did look at the Ramshot Enforcer for the 240 graiin and it does look very promising. What about Hodgdon'd Lil'Gun? That looked very promising for the 300 grain XTP.
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Bobo7mmmag
Advanced Member

2578 Posts

Posted - Jun 23 2011 :  12:46:02  Show Profile Send Bobo7mmmag a Private Message  Reply with Quote
VV N110 is a granular, single based powder. To match the velocity of H110 you will have to compress the powder a lot.

I have used the 300 grain Hornady XTP HP loaded to the lower crimp groove at 1.74" OAL. A Ruger Backhawk with a 7-1/2" barrel (9" plus including the Cylinder), a Thompson Contender with a 10" barrel and a Marlin with a 20" barrel (loaded single shot in the chamber and is too long to eject so has to be fired before ejecting).

23.0 grains of H110 and 26.0 grains of Win-680 (lightly compressed) with Win Brass, CCI-350 Mag primers gave similar velocities.

1,310 fps Ruger
1,420 fps Contender
1,590 fps Marlin

Redhawk with a 9-1/2" barrel would be 11" plus with the cylinder would be close to the Contender velocities in my opinion. Have shot WT Deer broadside behind the shoulder with the 300 grain XTP with excellent expansion.

Handloader Magazine No 265, April 2010, page done +P (48,000 PSI in their opinion) .44 Mag loads.

Starline brass used through out in a 7-1/2" Ruger SS Redhawk:

300 grain Hornady XTP at 1.734" OAL.
21.0 gr AA-9 at 1,386 fps CCI-300 primer
22.5 gr LIL-Gun 1,386 fps CCI-350 primer
24.0 gr H110 at 1,389 fps CCI-350 primer

300 grain Speer Plated SP at 1.665" OAL
22.0 gr VV-N110 at 1,399 fps CCI-350 noted as being heavily compressed
24.0 gr H110 gave 1,390 fps CCI-350 primer

Have shot WT Deer with the 300 grain Speer out of the Marlin at all most straight away angle breaking the pelvis/ upper leg bone socket to pieces while exiting the opposite side front shoulder.

If it were me I would use the 300 grain Hornady XTP (much better expansion but not Bonded) for the first shot and fill the remaining five slots in the cylinder withe 300 grain Speers (Bonded and better for quartering or straight away shots).

With 300 grain bullets:

My choice on powders would be H110 or Alliant Power Pro 300-MP.

VV-N110 has to be heavily compressed. Would be concerned about bullets popping out in a revolver.
LIL'Gun has been noted as giving erratic vel/ accuracy.
AA-9 and Enforcer can get to H110 velocities but at slightly higher pressures most likely.

How about some Quick Load data?
It may give some added tie breaking info!!!

have fun.
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Hockeynick39
Advanced Member



USA
3738 Posts

Posted - Jun 23 2011 :  17:11:05  Show Profile  Send Hockeynick39 an AOL message Send Hockeynick39 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I looked at H110 on quickload and noted that it only burned roughly 89%. Also the velocities that you have listed for the other .44 Mag loads are about on par +/- 20 fps w/ what I ran on QL during my search even with a COAL of 1.610". I'm with you on the need for the 300 gr HP and will look at the Speers', which if they are bonded, will be better on bigger black bears.
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Hockeynick39
Advanced Member



USA
3738 Posts

Posted - Jun 25 2011 :  15:53:46  Show Profile  Send Hockeynick39 an AOL message Send Hockeynick39 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ended up picking up some Sierra 300 gr JSPs, H110, and some CCI 350 MLPs. Talked to a guy that has hunted Black Bear and said that the HPs are no good because they fill up with fur and fat too fast for reliable penetration. He suggested a JSP and was leaning towards a cast solid. I believe the Sierras will fill the bill though. I am also looking to seat these as far out as possible too, 1.750".
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Bobo7mmmag
Advanced Member

2578 Posts

Posted - Jun 25 2011 :  16:33:20  Show Profile Send Bobo7mmmag a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The ST article ran the 300 grain Sierra at 1.735" OAL.

Only H110 powder was used but it's velocity was very close to the other 300 grainers:

24.0 gr clocked at 1,394 fps with CCI-350 primer.

ST does note that all tests were done at 20 degree temps.

I have not used the Sierra's. You may want to shoot them into some water jugs for expansion qualities.

Winchester brass seems to run a little lighter weight and have slightly more room than Rem and Starline in my experience.

Let us know how it goes.


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Hockeynick39
Advanced Member



USA
3738 Posts

Posted - Jun 25 2011 :  18:39:36  Show Profile  Send Hockeynick39 an AOL message Send Hockeynick39 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Will definitely let you know how things are going, may be a good summer project.
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Hockeynick39
Advanced Member



USA
3738 Posts

Posted - Aug 20 2011 :  19:18:15  Show Profile  Send Hockeynick39 an AOL message Send Hockeynick39 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Finally had an opportunity to go to the range and do some pressure tests on the .44 Rem Mag. Loads tested ranged from 19 gr - 23 gr H110 with a 300 gr Sierra JSP and a COAL of 1.734". All loads shot well, comfortably, and did not show any pressure signs about the primer area nor did the cylinder head lock up at all. A successful test and am moving on to an accuracy ladder test. Loads will be from 22.6 - 23 gr H110, 300 gr Sierra JSP, and a COAL of 1.734". According to QL data for a SAAMI load these are approximately 2000-3000 PSI over max pressure of 36000 PSI. However, QL data for a Piezo CIP load has these just below max pressure by about 1000-2000 PSI with a max pressure of 40100 PSI. As mentioned before the pistol is a Ruger Super Redhawk with a 9.5" barrel and should be rated at the higher pressure scale as it is rated for .44 Remington Magnum +P loads from the manufacturer.
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Bobo7mmmag
Advanced Member

2578 Posts

Posted - Aug 20 2011 :  20:25:58  Show Profile Send Bobo7mmmag a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sounds like it's coming together for you.
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Hockeynick39
Advanced Member



USA
3738 Posts

Posted - Aug 21 2011 :  08:58:04  Show Profile  Send Hockeynick39 an AOL message Send Hockeynick39 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yup and pretty darn excited too! Now if I can scrape together enough for a chrony plus shipping, we'll see exactly what we have for velocity.
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Hockeynick39
Advanced Member



USA
3738 Posts

Posted - Oct 19 2011 :  14:05:39  Show Profile  Send Hockeynick39 an AOL message Send Hockeynick39 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Finally able to get to the range and get the accuracy loads done. The best shooting load was the 23 gr H110, OAL 1.734". It was shot from a sand bag rest to 50 yds and we about a 1 1/2" group, 2 touching and one out. The other loads were almost 2" groups with one that didn't even touch paper even with the POAs being the same. The guy doing the shooting thought that was crazy and didn't think he was that far off target, then it dawned on him how and why the accuracy testing was so important. Now I get to make up the rest of the loads and he can final zero his scope by next week. Thanks again for the help Bobo and with any luck we'll be posting some entry/ exit pictures of this load.
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Bobo7mmmag
Advanced Member

2578 Posts

Posted - Oct 23 2011 :  16:27:11  Show Profile Send Bobo7mmmag a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Will be waiting on Pics. Good luck.
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45cal
Junior Member



USA
49 Posts

Posted - Dec 17 2011 :  12:09:22  Show Profile Send 45cal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I switched from h-110 this last summer and went back to an old favorite in the 2400,it works very well with non mag primers [wolf,powder valley $15.50 a brick]
I also went to lead cast bullets.Keith style.
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