Reloader's Nest Forum
Reloader's Nest Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Reloading General
 Load request
 178 AMAX
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2

Newbie87
Starting Member

USA
5 Posts

Posted - Jul 05 2011 :  15:56:01  Show Profile Send Newbie87 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am starting to look for a load for my .308 and I have heard and read a lot of good things about 178 grain A-Maxs. I have looked in the book and have their baselines. I was wondering if anyone has any experience loading these? If so what powder and charge? I am shooting an Remmington 700 with a 20" 1:10 twist barrel. Thanks for the info.

rocketman
Junior Member

Canada
46 Posts

Posted - Jul 13 2011 :  18:42:43  Show Profile Send rocketman a Private Message  Reply with Quote
hey newbie,ive been loading 168gr. a-max for some time with sub moa results in a thompson center .308 & shot plenty of white tail deer with them "even if not recomended"...love them! they all dropped in their tracks.ive just loaded a bunch of 178gr. a-max with different loads & planning to go to the range on the weekend to test them out.i load vhit n140 powder,dont know if you can get your hands on some but ill keep you posted with my best results next week.later & good shooting!rock
Go to Top of Page

spires5d
Average Member



145 Posts

Posted - Jul 13 2011 :  23:12:41  Show Profile Send spires5d a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well,I haven't tried the A-Max bullets,but I've been loading Hornady's 150 gr.SP in my son's .308 and they shot rather well.Hornady makes a good bullet and let us know how you come out with the A-Max bullets.





7mm's Forever and a 30 cal. will "Slam Dunk Um"
Go to Top of Page

fishstan2
Advanced Member



USA
2300 Posts

Posted - Jul 13 2011 :  23:26:47  Show Profile  Send fishstan2 a Yahoo! Message Send fishstan2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Newbie87, the guy you need to talk to is DS28. He if I remember right is the guy who has shot this particular load. Good luck and good shooting. Stan

WILLIAMS, STANLEY W.
CSM JBLM
"I SAY SHOOTEM FROM LONG RANGE"
Go to Top of Page

Fred_C_Dobbs
Advanced Member



678 Posts

Posted - Jul 14 2011 :  16:26:01  Show Profile Send Fred_C_Dobbs a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A lot of shooters expend a lot of energy trying to duplicate the military's M118LR .308 sniper round, which is not a bad idea, considering how much effort the military has put into perfecting it. In 2006, an Army sniper in Iraq made the longest known shot with that cartridge, 1367 yards, so they appear to be doing pretty good with it.

I mention that for three reasons: 1) the M24 and the M40 sniper rifles both are based on the Rem 700, 2) the standard barrel length for the M24 and the M40 is 20", and 3) the M118LR is loaded with a 175-gr SMK bullet. However, a lot of guys load basically the same round using the 178-gr A-Max because they intend hunting with it and the A-Max has better terminal ballistics than the Sierra. And three grains is little enough bullet weight that the 175-gr recipe will get you very close with the 178. You can find plenty of M118LR recipes at SniperCentral.com or SnipersHide.com forums, or you could just Dogpile for it (I don't G**gle).

And don't sweat the fact that they might call their cartridge the 7.62 NATO, the military loads them mild enough that they're well within the .308's civilian SAAMI pressure specs. At military-sized pressures, from a 20" barrel, you're looking at about 2600 fps at the muzzle.



Right now I'm loading three bullets in .308, the 178-gr A-Max, Berger's 175-gr Tactical and the 155-gr Lapua Scenar. Out of my FN bolt gun (24" 1:12), the A-Max shoots 3-shot groups averaging 1.4" @200 yards. That's plenty accurate for a big-game hunting round, and it does have the best terminal effects of the three, so it gets my vote for the best hunting bullet. However, both the other bullets group tighter still.

The 175-gr Berger has better long-grange potential because it has a substantially higher (real) BC than the A-Max. Plus, unlike the A-Max, it has the aerodynamics to remain stable when it slows to below the speed of sound. I have no trouble keeping it stable to 1000 yards, which is the furthest I've shot it, so I really don't know how far it would remain accurate.

The Lapua has almost an identical BC to the A-Max, despite its lighter weight, .462 vs .469. The tradeoff is that it's a very long bullet so it doesn't get along with some 1:12 barrels. But because it's lighter, you can drive the Scenar substantially faster. So loaded to comparable pressures, it does a better job of bucking the wind than the heavier A-Max. And it was the most accurate bullet of the three, by a fair margin.

So if it's beyond 800 yards, the answer is the Berger. Inside of 800 yards, if shot placement is critical, it's the Lapua. But if it's inside of 800 yards and I need to put a really big hole in it, the A-Max will more than do the job.

I have two A-Max loads, BTW. My "barrel-friendly" load is 42 grains of Varget, which gets me about 2600 fps (pretty much a duplicate of the M118LR, although that was never the objective). And if I need the extra grunt, 44.9 grains gets me about 2770 fps and shoots the same MoA as the 42-gr load but doesn't break anything. That 44.9-gr charge is pretty warm so approach it cautiously and follow the customary safe load development practices. OAL for both was (magazine-limited) 2.80".

I'll bet ya a hundred and five thousand dollars you go to sleep before I do.
-- Dobbsie
Go to Top of Page

fishstan2
Advanced Member



USA
2300 Posts

Posted - Jul 16 2011 :  00:22:58  Show Profile  Send fishstan2 a Yahoo! Message Send fishstan2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Fred, would like to state that the standard barrel length for both M-24 and M-40 rifles is 24" and the difference in the barrel twist is the M-24 has the 1:11.25 twist rate the the M-40 has the 1:12 twist rate. Also as a side not the M-24 is a long action the M-40 is a short action. I see them all the time over here and even looked at buying one at one point in time but could not come to terms for spending over $5,000 for a kit in a 7.62/308 caliber rifle (sure do like that Schmidt & Bender 3–12×50 Police Marksman II LP rifle scope the Marines went with but it cost over $2,500 all by it self). The close copy of the M-24 is the Remington 5R with a 1:11.25 twist rate which cost a little over $1,000 or so and some of the guys here shoot them. DS28 is one of those that say this rifle will shoot hole for hole. Remington does make a Tactical model with a 20" that is absolutely a tack driver and have loaded for a friend of mine that has one in the PSS model. Good luck and good shooting. Stan

WILLIAMS, STANLEY W.
CSM JBLM
"I SAY SHOOTEM FROM LONG RANGE"

Edited by - fishstan2 on Jul 16 2011 00:43:33
Go to Top of Page

Fred_C_Dobbs
Advanced Member



678 Posts

Posted - Jul 16 2011 :  11:16:08  Show Profile Send Fred_C_Dobbs a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I stand corrected, fishstan2, I thought they were 20". Fortunately, or unfortunately, depending on your perspective, every time I saw one when I was in SWA, it was still put away in the case. I know Tac-Ops favors the 20" barrel in .308 and I thought they were mirroring the military rifles.

I was aware of the different actions because the army is "upgrading" a bunch of their M-24s to .300 WinMag, which they can get away with because it's based on the long action. The Marines, OTOH, do not have that option.

I'll bet ya a hundred and five thousand dollars you go to sleep before I do.
-- Dobbsie
Go to Top of Page

Bobo7mmmag
Advanced Member

2546 Posts

Posted - Jul 16 2011 :  14:55:24  Show Profile Send Bobo7mmmag a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I take it the Modified M-24, .300 Win Mag versions have 1:10" twist on the rifling? Last I heard they were trying 190 and 200 grain Sierra Matchkings?
Go to Top of Page

fishstan2
Advanced Member



USA
2300 Posts

Posted - Jul 16 2011 :  22:27:22  Show Profile  Send fishstan2 a Yahoo! Message Send fishstan2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Bobo7mmmag, latest word on the street is 220 Sierra Match Kings at 2,850 FPS, and they are supposed to be very, very, very accurate at very long distances up to 1,500 yards. Stan

Here is the nomenclature on the new round:

MK 248 MOD 1 .300 Winchester Magnum match-grade ammunition


WILLIAMS, STANLEY W.
CSM JBLM
"I SAY SHOOTEM FROM LONG RANGE"

Edited by - fishstan2 on Jul 16 2011 23:29:18
Go to Top of Page

Bobo7mmmag
Advanced Member

2546 Posts

Posted - Jul 16 2011 :  23:04:56  Show Profile Send Bobo7mmmag a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the info Stan. Think they are using a 1:10" twist on the rifling?
Go to Top of Page

Bobo7mmmag
Advanced Member

2546 Posts

Posted - Jul 17 2011 :  12:54:23  Show Profile Send Bobo7mmmag a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Stan

Have any idea what kind of OAL they are running on those 220 grain Sierra's?

Long action they should have a 3.70 inch magazine box to work with.

Powder?

Picking up any empty's? Hee-Hee, don't have to answer that last question.

Go to Top of Page

fishstan2
Advanced Member



USA
2300 Posts

Posted - Jul 18 2011 :  11:58:25  Show Profile  Send fishstan2 a Yahoo! Message Send fishstan2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Bobo7mmmag, I wish I could get some of this ammuntion but not over here.LOL 2,850 fps with a 220 grain bullet is going to hurt. I did a little looking around and here is what I was able to find. Should answer most if not all questions, and notice it states they loaded to SAMMI specs not military. I am wondering if I could load to this velocity with a 220 grain bullet maybe Reloader 19 or 22Good reading. Stan

https://www.neco.navy.mil/upload/N00164/N0016409RJN30000209RJN30_0002_att.pdf

Did a little research and it looks like I will be able to load to 2,850 fps with H-1000 or H-870 which I have ample supplies of

WILLIAMS, STANLEY W.
CSM JBLM
"I SAY SHOOTEM FROM LONG RANGE"

Edited by - fishstan2 on Jul 18 2011 12:01:52
Go to Top of Page

Bobo7mmmag
Advanced Member

2546 Posts

Posted - Jul 18 2011 :  14:48:01  Show Profile Send Bobo7mmmag a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Stan

Couldn't get that web site to come up.

1995 Hodgdon Manual lists 77.0 grains of H-1000 with a 220 grain bullet at 2,881 fps with 54,500 cup. They did not state the brand, style or OAL of the bullet but you are close there.

Military could opt for a new powder on this load however. It will be interesting to see.

Thanks again.
Go to Top of Page

fishstan2
Advanced Member



USA
2300 Posts

Posted - Jul 19 2011 :  00:27:41  Show Profile  Send fishstan2 a Yahoo! Message Send fishstan2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Bobo7mmmag, try the log on again I just did and it pulled right up. If you can't do it that way do this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M24_Sniper_Weapon_System

Go to the bottom of the page and you will see the ammunition info. Great reading and notice they are using H-1000. I am overjoyed. Thanks. Stan

WILLIAMS, STANLEY W.
CSM JBLM
"I SAY SHOOTEM FROM LONG RANGE"
Go to Top of Page

Bobo7mmmag
Advanced Member

2546 Posts

Posted - Jul 19 2011 :  06:31:53  Show Profile Send Bobo7mmmag a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Stan

Great info. Looks like the R5 rifling is 1:10 inch twist.

Thanks
Go to Top of Page

jgorski
New Member

USA
10 Posts

Posted - Aug 23 2011 :  23:02:27  Show Profile Send jgorski a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ive been working with Alliants new PP2000MR powder and 178HPBTs, 47.5grs, CCIBR primers, Win Brass, 2.850" OAL. Velocity is over 2700fps, accuracy is very good, 300yd, 3 shot groups in the 1.5" range, 200yd groups around 7/8". I did try 210M primers but werent as accurate in my Rem SPSS.
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Reloader's Nest Forum © 2013 ReloadersNest Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.16 seconds. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.06