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 7mm-08 youth load
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duckdog
Junior Member

43 Posts

Posted - Nov 17 2012 :  20:20:28  Show Profile Send duckdog a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just picked up a savage M11 youth in 7mm-08. 20 inch barrel 9.5 to 1 twist. Also have a box of 139gr Hornady SST's. Anyone got a good low recoil load to start with for the youngster. I don't have any powder that will work for this cal. so that part is wide open.

swampshooter
Advanced Member

USA
669 Posts

Posted - Nov 18 2012 :  09:29:40  Show Profile Send swampshooter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
IMR 3031 is very good for accurate light loads and still could be used for max hunting loads. I would try about 28-30 grs. of 3031 behind your 139 gr. bullets for a target load to start with. Velocity would probably be about 2,000 fps. You won't have a pressure excursion or S.E.E. with 3031. About 35 grs. should make a nice youth hunting load. Velocity would probably be 2500-2600 fps. When I had a back injury I loaded 35 grs. behind a 180 gr. bullet in a 300 Win mag without problems, velocity was 2200 fps. it was very accurate also. Currently I'm loading 47 grs. of 3031 behind a 140 gr. bullet in a 7mm Rem mag. for a reduced velocity informal target load. No problems and it's been very accurate out to 300 yards. Velocity is 2650 fps. Good Luck.

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necchi
Advanced Member



USA
881 Posts

Posted - Nov 18 2012 :  10:47:44  Show Profile Send necchi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hodgdon's Youth loads and H4895,
http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Youth%20Loads.pdf

H4895 is a great preformer in the 308 class cartridges and it's the only powder that can take the drastically reduced load safely.

I use H4895 behind a Barnes 12oTTSX in the boy's 7-08 at a full charge, (he's growed now) and get sub moa at 200 with that thing screaming just over 3000fps
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swampshooter
Advanced Member

USA
669 Posts

Posted - Nov 18 2012 :  11:07:58  Show Profile Send swampshooter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Necchi, I totally disagree with your statement regarding (4895 the only powder that can take drastically reduced loads) you have been misinformed. Where did you get that information from?

nra range technical team advisor
nra endowment member
Texas State Hunters Safety Instructor
NRA Range Safety Officer
NRA Pistol Coach
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steve marshall
New Member

19 Posts

Posted - Nov 18 2012 :  11:25:24  Show Profile Send steve marshall a Private Message  Reply with Quote
SLOW powders are generally the ones to avoid drastically reduced loads, It supposedly can cause SEE. You know the ones no one can replicate in the labs .
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duckdog
Junior Member

43 Posts

Posted - Nov 18 2012 :  11:53:18  Show Profile Send duckdog a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What so you mean by S.E.E.
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steve marshall
New Member

19 Posts

Posted - Nov 18 2012 :  16:07:10  Show Profile Send steve marshall a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Secondary Explosion Effect. Supposedly, the primer flash overides the much smaller than normal slow powder charge causing overmax pressure excursions. This only occurs with "slow" powders leading me to believe that in fact someone used a larger than normal load of a fast or medium powder. I've never heard of it happening with ball or flake powders only extruded. So a supposed safe H870 charge is actually an overload with something like 4198. I also believe that these SEE's are way overloaded with the faster powders, hence the explosive effect.
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swampshooter
Advanced Member

USA
669 Posts

Posted - Nov 18 2012 :  18:54:56  Show Profile Send swampshooter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have never heard of a S.E.E. in a rifle cartridge with powders faster burning than 4350. Most experts and ballistic labs agree with this. But I wonder about H-110 and 296 in pistol cartridges. All the reloading info that I've seen warns against light charges of H-110/296. There must be a reason. Both are faster burning than the fastest rifle powders ie: 4198, and are double-based ball powders.

nra range technical team advisor
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Texas State Hunters Safety Instructor
NRA Range Safety Officer
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Onondaga
Advanced Member



USA
2024 Posts

Posted - Nov 18 2012 :  21:10:48  Show Profile Send Onondaga a Private Message  Reply with Quote
duckdog:

Youth loads for the 7MM-08 and the139 gr Hornady SST are easy to figure out with a powder that is recommended by the powder manufacturer for reduced loads when the powder is also a common one for the cartridge. Hodgdon H4895 falls right in line.

Take a look at our Reloaders Nest Load #3345, Link:

http://www.reloadersnest.com/unverified_detail.asp?CaliberID=43&ID=3345

This load is a Maximum 7MM-08 Load for the Hornady 139 gr SST at 3180 fps with 42.5 grains H4895.

Hodgdon recommends that 60% of Max loads with H4895 are a safe youth load level starting load. 60% of 42.5 grains is 25.2 grains to start a youth load with your bullet.

You can use the free Reduced Load Calculator online at :
http://www.handloads.com/calc/reduced.asp

This is a great tool to use with H4895 for reduced load calculations. I used the program to figure the velocity with your SST bullet with the load of 25.2 grains as recommended for a youth start load by Hodgdon. Velocity projected with 25.2 gr H4895 and the 139 gr Hornady SST is 2095 fps.

You can also use a free online ballistic calculator for more info with that load:
http://www.handloads.com/calc/index.html

I like the Ballistic Calculator to determine the farthest range that will yield 1,000 foot pounds for an effective and humane harvest of big game like whitetail deer.

The reduced load with 25.2 gr H4895 has 1,013 foot pounds delivered at 150 yards as calculated. This is a formidable clean killing load for the 7MM-08 with a reduced load/ reduced recoil powder charge for clean solid harvesting of big game animals with a hit to the vital area at up to 150 yards. I would not hesitate to go with that for a youngster and highly recommend it to you.

You can go up from the 25.2 grains of H4895, but 25.2 grains is the minimum charge when following Hodgdon recommendations for reduced recoil youth loads. The load should have no position sensitivity on ignition and light well with standard rifle primers when staying within the recommendations of Hodgdon.

A reasonable alternative I have not personally experimented with is IMR Trailboss. IMR has specific recommendations for using their Trailboss powder for reduced loads and this would definitely apply to the 7MM-08. Because specific load data with Trailboss and the 7MM-08 is very limited, you will likely need a Chronograph to target a load with Trailboss for a reduced load to give you velocity data with your bullet and cartridge.

IMR Trailboss instructions for reduced loads:
http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

However, You will not be able to go up to 2095 fps with Trailboss. So if you need to go lower than the Hodgdon load for a really small kid, say a kid weighing less than 100 pounds, Trailboss should be fine if you calculate where your 1,000 foot pound range is and limit the range of game shots to a calculated distance for the youth.
SORRY! I followed up and the IMR Trailboss, even at maximum recommended charge will not approach 1,000 foot pounds of energy for the 7MM-08 at any range with a 140 grain bullet. I would not recommend using it for hunting at all.


Gary

Fine rifles are never really owned.

Edited by - Onondaga on Nov 18 2012 22:57:38
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necchi
Advanced Member



USA
881 Posts

Posted - Nov 18 2012 :  23:11:16  Show Profile Send necchi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by swampshooter

Necchi, I totally disagree with your statement

Ok, I won't loose sleep.
I got it from the link I provided. I tend to listen to the powder pros and pay little attention to a four fingered Bubba.

IF I needed reduced loads I'd use H4895, I understand folks use a case full of Trailboss, or some other shotgun grade powders but I'll stick with factory info.
I'll experiment to a point but nuthing too far out.

I'll probably never try "cat sneeze" loads in large calibers "just becasue I can",, I'll use something that's made to preform at subsonic speeds.
Knock yerself out, have fun,,
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swampshooter
Advanced Member

USA
669 Posts

Posted - Nov 19 2012 :  08:20:15  Show Profile Send swampshooter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hodgdon does not claim that 4895 is the only powder that can be used to create reduced loads. They don't claim that it's the best powder to use for reduced loads. Their claim is that it is the SLOWEST powder that can be used. I agree that 4895 is the slowest powder that can be used for reduced loads.
I have played around with reduced loads for over 50 years. Basically I enjoy experimenting. I have found that good accurate loads with consistent velocity readings, low extreme spreads and standard deviation are normally easier to find with 3031 than 4895. I don't recall 3031 ever failing to give me good accuracy with a reduced load. Remington at one time used reduced loads of 3031 for accuracy testing in many of their production rifles.

nra range technical team advisor
nra endowment member
Texas State Hunters Safety Instructor
NRA Range Safety Officer
NRA Pistol Coach
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duckdog
Junior Member

43 Posts

Posted - Nov 19 2012 :  22:38:07  Show Profile Send duckdog a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks guys, and wow Gary you really did some homework, I'm definetly going to check out those links. Tomorrow i'm going to zero the scope with some factory reduced recoil ammo and start collecting some brass.
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hawkinsp
Average Member



USA
144 Posts

Posted - Nov 20 2012 :  16:46:16  Show Profile Send hawkinsp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I load 39 gr of R-15 and 139 gr interlock for my daughter. it shoots well out of a youth model 7 with very little recoil

MIA/POW bring em home or send us back
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duckdog
Junior Member

43 Posts

Posted - Dec 06 2012 :  22:11:00  Show Profile Send duckdog a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Got it guys. 28.5 gr of H4895 CCI 200 primers .020 off the lands 139gr SST, very tight at 100yds, checked twice just like Santa's list, sweet gun, little guy will be happy happy on the 25th, thanks for the help..duckdog
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Onondaga
Advanced Member



USA
2024 Posts

Posted - Dec 06 2012 :  22:30:21  Show Profile Send Onondaga a Private Message  Reply with Quote
duckdog:

Spot on! I'm glad you tried the 4895 reduced right near where I recommended. I was confident that would shoot well for you and your youngster.

Gary

Fine rifles are never really owned.
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duckdog
Junior Member

43 Posts

Posted - Dec 07 2012 :  19:39:20  Show Profile Send duckdog a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I Started right where you recomended Gary and moved in 1/2 grain steps, planned on breaking things down tighter when I got close but did't need to 28.5 shot under 1/2" so I loaded 12 more and verified them on a different day, they moved out a little the second time but very little, great load! I also used your barrel polishing trick on the gun, I can't give you an honest before and after because I shot the gun with factory ammo, polished the barrel then started working the load up. (didn't have any factory shells left to test) but I do plan on polishing my gun after hunting season (it's on so I don;t want to mess with it while
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