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 Substituting powders by burn rate
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Andy Jaeger
Junior Member

55 Posts

Posted - Mar 19 2013 :  09:51:01  Show Profile Send Andy Jaeger a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am loading for rifles and am running out of my favorite powders, which are now not available, or in short supply, because of the "shortage"

I have the powder burn rate list that is offered on this site and went through and picked out a couple of different powders that are within 2 or 3 rankings from the ones I was using.

Question: Am I going to get simular results when substituting for Magpro with Reloader 22 (which is 3 spots faster in burn rate) or IMR7828 (which is 3 spots slower) for the Magpro? This is assuming that I can get the correct loading data for the caliber and bullet I am using to go with the chosen powder.

Shastaboat
Advanced Member

USA
5072 Posts

Posted - Mar 19 2013 :  10:13:11  Show Profile Send Shastaboat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Andy,
I don't like to use the word substitute but in this present supply and demand we may find ourselves doing what you discuss. It's just like trying to do load development for something that may work better. Unfortunately with the limited selection you may not reach the performance of your preferred powder, but you may get lucky and actualy improve on what you were loading before. You still need to do your research and see if someone has already gone before you to get a load range which will generally be within a few grains of your prior load. It will keep usable ammo on your shelf. Check your manuals and powder manufacturers and loading sites like this for recommended powder weights if you find a close burn rated powder. If you still don't readily find what you need then post a question here and see if anyone can help. I'm sure you will get the assistance you need especially after you do your on-line search.

Edited by - Shastaboat on Mar 19 2013 10:14:40
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ten2six
Advanced Member



USA
3536 Posts

Posted - Mar 19 2013 :  11:27:10  Show Profile Send ten2six a Private Message  Reply with Quote
++ to Shasta.

Burn rate charts are like maps of whole continents...great for comparison and getting you in the ballpark, but not a substitute for load data.

Some good manuals that deal with a wide variety of powders are Hornady, Lee, Lyman, and Nosler.

"Chances are, when we meet intelligent life forms in outer space, they're going to be descended from predators."
- Michio Kaku
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Onondaga
Advanced Member



USA
2215 Posts

Posted - Mar 19 2013 :  14:32:26  Show Profile Send Onondaga a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Andy Jaeger:

I've experimented with a lot of 7828. It likes heavy bullets and long barrels. You may even get a trail of partially burned powder kernels down your bore substituting 7828 for Magpro but you wont get more pressure with an equal volume of powder so it is pretty safe. The unburned kernels do not effect safety, they just look sloppy and you may wish to bring a Hoppe's bore snake to the range and pull it through every few rounds.

Do not shoot low volume loads with 7828, you will get hang fires. That definitely means you have too little powder in the case with 7828. The stuff actually likes to be compressed if your rifle will handle the pressure.

Gary

Fine rifles are never really owned.

Edited by - Onondaga on Mar 19 2013 15:46:23
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dh2
Advanced Member



684 Posts

Posted - Mar 19 2013 :  17:07:22  Show Profile Send dh2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
what are you trying to load there should be data out there with a burn rate that close, do not use data for different powder than what you are using,
check the powder manufacture web sight most have data on there sight
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2ndtimer
Junior Member

USA
51 Posts

Posted - Apr 27 2013 :  15:41:02  Show Profile Send 2ndtimer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No shortcuts when changing powder in a load. You should always start low and work up using tested loading data as a reference, and staying within published recommendations for your new powder. Some even suggest backing off and reworking when using a different lot of the same powder. I suppose that would be true if you are loading maximum pressure loads, but I generally am not pushing my loads that much and have not experienced any pressure problems.
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Bobo7mmmag
Advanced Member

2546 Posts

Posted - Apr 27 2013 :  20:47:20  Show Profile Send Bobo7mmmag a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Name the gun and bullet in question.
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honkerhitter
Advanced Member



Canada
519 Posts

Posted - Apr 29 2013 :  00:46:25  Show Profile Send honkerhitter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The problem with burn rate charts is the are not linear or predictable. Lane Pearce has written a lot about this in Handloader mag. The powders you have listed are all fairly similar 2 PT's or 2 spots really don't mean squat, if you switch powder you have to start over with load development .

" Use what is known to work, reject what does not work, and add something of your own to make it unique" BRUCE LEE.
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noylj
Senior Member



USA
281 Posts

Posted - May 01 2013 :  01:39:01  Show Profile Send noylj a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It really isn't that hard to work up a load for a powder if you know the approximate burn rate--if you have experience--a lot of experience.
You can't use the powder charges for powders that are "near" the powder you have. For example, depending on the cartridge, Red Dot can be significantly faster than Bullseye, the same, or significantly slower. Thus, depending on the exact test conditions, a powder will move up and down quite a bit in different burn rate charts.
Then, you can't use ball powder data for flake or double base for single base (or, of course, vice versa). You have to know your powders.
If you started loading before the '80s, you would have learned how...
Of course, you do not work those types of loads up to max, just to function and accuracy (which is almost always a light load and very seldom more than mid-range) and you pay attention to every pressure sign you know.

Then said he unto them; But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Luke 22:36

My gun and I know that what counts is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit...
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Andy Jaeger
Junior Member

55 Posts

Posted - May 03 2013 :  14:29:54  Show Profile Send Andy Jaeger a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I appreciate the input. The rifle is a Win Model 70 in 300WSM. It likes 165 grain bullets with the Sierra Game Kings being the most accurate. I use the Lyman 49th and would use the loading data on the powder I choose. I haven't done any loading yet so I am spending time on the book work involved. I would spend more time at the range but it's May 3rd and we have snow on the ground in Arkansas!! My local Cabela's has NO primers, 2 pounds of shotgun powder total, and bullets are getting really picked over. Other than that everything is just fine.
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honkerhitter
Advanced Member



Canada
519 Posts

Posted - May 04 2013 :  09:29:23  Show Profile Send honkerhitter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good on you for doing your " homework " , the more you read and comprehend the easier it will be when you start to reload. Welcome to your soon to be new addiction.

" Use what is known to work, reject what does not work, and add something of your own to make it unique" BRUCE LEE.
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woods
Advanced Member

USA
1971 Posts

Posted - May 04 2013 :  11:39:18  Show Profile Send woods a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Andy Jaeger

The rifle is a Win Model 70 in 300WSM. It likes 165 grain bullets with the Sierra Game Kings being the most accurate.


If you can find RL17, grab it!

It was made for the shorties and is phenomenal in all the calibers I have used it in (6.5 rem mag which is considered the original short magnum, 280AI, 30-06 and 375 Ruger)

But you probably won't be able to find it either


When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others.

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45colt
Advanced Member



1389 Posts

Posted - May 04 2013 :  15:19:49  Show Profile Send 45colt a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I did something similar to what you are talking about. I looked at the powder burn charts and bought some different powders in the same range to head off any future needs for my guns here.

I like having options for my guns and don't want to be caught SOL when I need ammo when things get tight.

"I'd rather die for something, then live for nothing."

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