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 Need data on 170gr Speer/Hornady/Rem in .308Win
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jht_ms
Average Member

137 Posts

Posted - Aug 27 2013 :  01:14:55  Show Profile Send jht_ms a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm going to be loading some 170gr .30-30 bullets in my new .308 A-Bolt using Varget through a 21" bbl. Target velocity in the 2500-2600 range. No data out there, except for the spitzer bullets in this weight range. Anyone with prior experience that can give me a head start on a good load so I don't go on wasting alot of time and powder?????

Edited by - jht_ms on Aug 27 2013 01:26:40

Hockeynick39
Advanced Member



USA
3741 Posts

Posted - Aug 27 2013 :  06:22:02  Show Profile  Send Hockeynick39 an AOL message Send Hockeynick39 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Are you going to be crimping on the cannelure or do you have a specific OAL? Also, is this the Deep Curl (#2042) or the older Speer bullet (#2041). I can run some QL data for you, if you would like.
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dh2
Advanced Member



705 Posts

Posted - Aug 27 2013 :  10:15:18  Show Profile Send dh2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think Hockeynick39 offer to run QL would work, I was thinking run some thing like H4895 using the 180 gr. data because we can use data from a heaver bullet and H4895 is very friendly to make a recoil friendly load
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jht_ms
Average Member

137 Posts

Posted - Aug 27 2013 :  12:36:30  Show Profile Send jht_ms a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Speer Hot-Cor, running these @ 2.70" (to match Rem factory 180gr RN) in Hornady brass.
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Hockeynick39
Advanced Member



USA
3741 Posts

Posted - Aug 27 2013 :  17:15:23  Show Profile  Send Hockeynick39 an AOL message Send Hockeynick39 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jht_ms

Speer Hot-Cor, running these @ 2.70" (to match Rem factory 180gr RN) in Hornady brass.



The Hot-Cor is the older bullet (#2041). Try running your ladder in .5 gr increments from 41.8 to 43.8 (2500-2600 fps range). Somewhere in there is the sweet spot and if you can run a chronograph to make sure that that is where you want to run it at. Remember QL is only an aid not fact, that is up to the individual loader. Good luck and stay safe.
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jht_ms
Average Member

137 Posts

Posted - Aug 27 2013 :  18:50:51  Show Profile Send jht_ms a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yup.........have always used a chrony, even since before I started reloading 20yrs ago
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Shastaboat
Advanced Member

USA
5372 Posts

Posted - Aug 28 2013 :  02:53:12  Show Profile Send Shastaboat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Use 168 gr data. You will have a more arched trajectory but the powder requirement will be the same. Chronograph differences will be negligable at 10 feet. You won't need to crimp them but make sure you are a few thousanths off the lands.
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jht_ms
Average Member

137 Posts

Posted - Aug 28 2013 :  05:48:29  Show Profile Send jht_ms a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Shastaboat

Use 168 gr data. You will have a more arched trajectory but the powder requirement will be the same. Chronograph differences will be negligable at 10 feet. You won't need to crimp them but make sure you are a few thousanths off the lands.




Yeh........due to their short/blunt designs, I noticed that even with a COAL of 2.70" which puts me .025 off the lands with Rem CLSP, it gives me case capacity equal to the 125gr ballistic tips I use at max OAL. I'm betting, with slower powders like MR2000 or H414, you could make these scream!!! Not that you would want or need it, but might be a fun exercise to find out and try.
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Hockeynick39
Advanced Member



USA
3741 Posts

Posted - Aug 28 2013 :  06:34:21  Show Profile  Send Hockeynick39 an AOL message Send Hockeynick39 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jht_ms

quote:
Originally posted by Shastaboat

Use 168 gr data. You will have a more arched trajectory but the powder requirement will be the same. Chronograph differences will be negligable at 10 feet. You won't need to crimp them but make sure you are a few thousanths off the lands.




Yeh........due to their short/blunt designs, I noticed that even with a COAL of 2.70" which puts me .025 off the lands with Rem CLSP, it gives me case capacity equal to the 125gr ballistic tips I use at max OAL. I'm betting, with slower powders like MR2000 or H414, you could make these scream!!! Not that you would want or need it, but might be a fun exercise to find out and try.



I would imagine that if you drove them too fast, they would start to peel or explode on contact. They were designed for .30-30 velocities which aren't that fast, 2300 fps being about max for a 170 gr. Only one way to find out, right! Good luck and stay safe.
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Paul B
Advanced Member

3317 Posts

Posted - Aug 28 2013 :  14:39:13  Show Profile Send Paul B a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nick. Many many years ago when I lived in California, I used to hunt the Northwest corner of the state which is extremely dense rain forest. If a deer ran much more that 25 yards, it was most likely lost forever except foe the scavengers. I was hunting back then with a really beat up old 1903 Springfield with the stock badly bubba'd and the barrel cut to about 18 or 19" I forget which. I do remember it was barely legal. I loded those Speer Hot Core and other 30-30 bullets to about 2400 FPS estimated and they dropped those deer like a rock. Mangled up a lot of good meat if a shoulder was hit but that's better than losing the whole animal.Shots were mainly at very close range and a 50 yard shot was almost unheard of. About 23 to 35 yards tops so one had to shoot fast. O had a Redfield Sourdough front and Lyman 48 receiver sight on that rifle and it was quick to get on those little Blacktail Deer.
Paul B.
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Hockeynick39
Advanced Member



USA
3741 Posts

Posted - Aug 28 2013 :  16:59:10  Show Profile  Send Hockeynick39 an AOL message Send Hockeynick39 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paul B

Nick. Many many years ago when I lived in California, I used to hunt the Northwest corner of the state which is extremely dense rain forest. If a deer ran much more that 25 yards, it was most likely lost forever except foe the scavengers. I was hunting back then with a really beat up old 1903 Springfield with the stock badly bubba'd and the barrel cut to about 18 or 19" I forget which. I do remember it was barely legal. I loded those Speer Hot Core and other 30-30 bullets to about 2400 FPS estimated and they dropped those deer like a rock. Mangled up a lot of good meat if a shoulder was hit but that's better than losing the whole animal.Shots were mainly at very close range and a 50 yard shot was almost unheard of. About 23 to 35 yards tops so one had to shoot fast. O had a Redfield Sourdough front and Lyman 48 receiver sight on that rifle and it was quick to get on those little Blacktail Deer.
Paul B.



I can see that happening at that velocity, which is closer to maximum velocities out of a .30-30 Win. with a 24" barrel, especially with a 170 gr RN. With the load jht_ms is wanting to cook up, it would be better at a little longer range (50+ yds) and cause a little more damage. Albeit no tracking involved (hopefully).

I've been looking at the Woodleigh 240 gr to shoot out of my Miroku 1895 in .30-40 Krag for thick woods hunting. Even though the ballistic modeling only shows it to be moving between 2000-2170 fps, the impact energy was like 2500 ft/ lbs. That would be awesome for short range and open sights.
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swampshooter
Advanced Member

USA
669 Posts

Posted - Sep 01 2013 :  10:17:18  Show Profile Send swampshooter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A regular 220 gr. RN is awesome at close range when shot at 2200-2400 fps. Years ago before everybody got magnumitis this was a favorite of deep woods elk hunters that got their elk every year. I shot a black bear with them.

nra range technical team advisor
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Texas State Hunters Safety Instructor
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PaulS
Advanced Member

USA
530 Posts

Posted - Sep 05 2013 :  18:29:25  Show Profile Send PaulS a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That 170 grain bullet is made for low velocity loads and firing it through your 308 is going to put it under a lot of stress. I would use data for a 165 grain bullet with H4895 and start with a load that is 60% of the maximum listed for that 165 grain bullet. That is a safe load that Hodgdon recommends - no fillers are needed and ignition is not affected by powder position in the case. From there you can work the load up in small increments to where you get the accuracy you need. The maximum Varget loads for the heavier bullets are all compressed charges and the range between starting and max loads is very small - I would recommend a more forgiving powder (H4895) for light recoil loads.

reliable reload data comes from powder and bullet manufacturers, not so and so's web page.

NRA life member, SAF, CCRKBA - Join in the process to protect your rights.
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Hockeynick39
Advanced Member



USA
3741 Posts

Posted - Sep 06 2013 :  06:16:40  Show Profile  Send Hockeynick39 an AOL message Send Hockeynick39 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by swampshooter

A regular 220 gr. RN is awesome at close range when shot at 2200-2400 fps. Years ago before everybody got magnumitis this was a favorite of deep woods elk hunters that got their elk every year. I shot a black bear with them.



This is true, the 2d place World Record elk was taken with a .30-40 Krag and the old original military cartridge with round nose. Of course it took about 75 years to happen, but the "Spyder" bull is very impressive.
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45colt
Advanced Member



1405 Posts

Posted - Oct 04 2013 :  12:37:24  Show Profile Send 45colt a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PaulS

That 170 grain bullet is made for low velocity loads and firing it through your 308 is going to put it under a lot of stress. I would use data for a 165 grain bullet with H4895 and start with a load that is 60% of the maximum listed for that 165 grain bullet. That is a safe load that Hodgdon recommends - no fillers are needed and ignition is not affected by powder position in the case. From there you can work the load up in small increments to where you get the accuracy you need. The maximum Varget loads for the heavier bullets are all compressed charges and the range between starting and max loads is very small - I would recommend a more forgiving powder (H4895) for light recoil loads.



I and others I load for Have had very good results with the 170gr Speer FN at 2500fps. Shoots flatter than you think, hammers deer hard, AND holds together even on raking shots.

Try 4064, win 760, and Rel-15 and I use 180gr data for the 308, or 307win data. 307 data will NOT do any harm to your gun and the bullets are designed for that cartridge too.

"I'd rather die for something, then live for nothing."

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