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Ger34
Junior Member



Canada
44 Posts

Posted - Sep 28 2015 :  17:35:07  Show Profile Send Ger34 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I want to thank everyone for being so patient with my "newb" questions.... some of them probably seem so very basic to you experienced reloaders... thansk for being patient

so I have figured out this summer that I have 2 rifles that are "ok" with IMR 3031... both in 30-06.... so heres my query

I have learned that in an ideal world.... you want the case to be full or very close to full of powder so that when it's chambered the powder doesn't "lay" on the bottom half f the shell and burn unevenly.. causing accuracy issues

so I have tried 3031...and the best load is filling the case about half full.... I usually get 2 bullets touching or withing 1/2" and then 1 or 2 flyers about 1" away.. my b in laws rifle about 2" sometimes 3" away....likely me... but possibly powder

so heres my question.... if I chrony (borrowed) my good loads with 3031.... how do I determine what powder will fill the case and give me the same speeds?

Thanks

Bobo7mmmag
Advanced Member

3018 Posts

Posted - Sep 28 2015 :  19:42:33  Show Profile Send Bobo7mmmag a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A little help from your friends here at the "Nest"

Some Manuals like Nosler, Berger will list percentage of fill on loads.

Some one may run Quick Load for you and it will list percentage of fill.

Look for loads in the 85 to 105 percent fill range.

I used to use the old H4831 Surplus powder marked MR-3100 years ago with 180 grain bullets pushing 110 percent and heavily compressed when seating the bullet. I switched to H4350 powder and running closer to 95 - 100 percent.

H4350 loads with Rem or Win brass
60 grains with 150 gr bullets
58 grains with 165 gr bullets
56 grains with 180 gr bullets
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Shastaboat
Advanced Member



USA
9124 Posts

Posted - Sep 28 2015 :  22:40:57  Show Profile Send Shastaboat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You don't say how many grains of 3031 you are using in any particular 30-06 load but 3031 is a decent powder and even with a 220 gr bullet a proper charge with 3031 would fill the case to the upper 1/2 of case volumn. If you are using less than a 1/2 case of 3031 then I say you are probably not following a manual recommend.

It sounds like you really don't know what velocities you are getting now. You also are making assumptions that a full case of any powder equates to consistancy, accuracy and velocity. Not necessarily so. There may be better powders for your particular needs depending on the bullet weights you want to shoot. 3031, although OK would not be my suggested powder in 30-06 with any weight bullet but it will work. It is my prefered powder in 30-30.
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Rapidrob
Senior Member

USA
455 Posts

Posted - Sep 29 2015 :  21:42:58  Show Profile Send Rapidrob a Private Message  Reply with Quote
IMR and H-4831 (59-60 grains under a 150 grain FMJ) will fill the case and is my go-to load for ranges 500 plus yards.
Clean burning,easy on brass,crazy accurate.

Gulf of Tonkin Yacht Club
NRA Endowment Member
President NM MILSURPS
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Ger34
Junior Member



Canada
44 Posts

Posted - Oct 01 2015 :  22:05:14  Show Profile Send Ger34 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
ok... so being the newb I am.. I guess I should have mentioned my loads before asking for details

using 53gr of H4350 pushing a 165 Sierra Game King Spitzer Boattail... best groups were 1.3/8" @ 100yds
using 45gr of IMR 3031 pushing same bullet groups are 1" and just under ..again @ 100yds

starting loads for H4350 behind the 165gr bullets are 53gr... max is 59gr
starting loads for IMR3031 behind same bullet are 45gr and max is 48gr

looking in the case after I place the powder charge I am finding the H4350 is pretty close to the shoulder... but with the IMR3031... it "appears" to be about half full... so I filled a case up to the base of the neck with 3031 and weighed it out at 51gr... so I guess I was in err... the case was more than 90% full... maybe it's time to get a better light above my bench.... and a visit to the Optometrist might be in order as well

Sorry guys.... this seems to be my bad

I do have 1 other question while I have your attention..... shooting 4 shot groups right now...and I know most of you probably shoot 5 shot groups.... however...I will sometimes get 2 shots touching and then (using 3 shot patterns) I will get one 3" away... shooting 4 shot groups I'll get 2 touching...and next 2 are a cpl inches away and maybe 1/2" apart....
I'm guessing shooter error at this point... however... how do you determine with those groups which is the best powder to use? or maybe my rifle only seems to be capable of 1 1/2" groups?

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Maxim67
Starting Member



USA
2 Posts

Posted - Oct 02 2015 :  00:57:28  Show Profile  Visit Maxim67's Homepage Send Maxim67 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would take a powder that I have on hand and fill the case to 95% full
then weigh the powder and return it to its container. next look in your load data for a recommended charge of about the same weight the powders all have different densities but they should be close in vol versus weight. I usually stay away from powders that show in the load data to push a projectile at a given speed with a very light charge of powder. Usually when you search for a powder for a particular load you find 2 or 3 that are noted by most sources to be accurate for that caliber. This makes quick work of your selection.
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bad arrow
Advanced Member



Canada
797 Posts

Posted - Oct 02 2015 :  09:32:45  Show Profile Send bad arrow a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I do have 1 other question while I have your attention..... shooting 4 shot groups right now...and I know most of you probably shoot 5 shot groups.... however...I will sometimes get 2 shots touching and then (using 3 shot patterns) I will get one 3" away... shooting 4 shot groups I'll get 2 touching...and next 2 are a cpl inches away and maybe 1/2" apart....
I'm guessing shooter error at this point... however... how do you determine with those groups which is the best powder to use? or maybe my rifle only seems to be capable of 1 1/2" groups?

Ger34
Maybe you have a high spot in your barrel channel of your stock, touching the barrel after it gets heated up and expands.
I have had that happen to me before just as you say, 2 shots MOA, then after they begin to stray.
Just a thought.
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Shastaboat
Advanced Member



USA
9124 Posts

Posted - Oct 02 2015 :  10:18:03  Show Profile Send Shastaboat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
1.5" is acceptable for an off the shelf rifle. Proper bedding, correct scope mounting and a good crisp trigger pull are necessary as well as proper bench shooting techniques. Any one of these variables that is not consistant can cause the results you describe. Forget changing powders at this time until you review each of the other variables.
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Paul B
Advanced Member

3969 Posts

Posted - Oct 02 2015 :  18:36:58  Show Profile Send Paul B a Private Message  Reply with Quote
IMR 3031 is a relatively fast powder for use in the 30-06 in as it takes less 3031 than say 4350 or 4831. Trying to get the highest velocity is not only an exercise in futility but can be downright dangerous. Seems you now have a decent bragging load with 3031 but to utilize the full power of the 30-06, I'd be looking at the 4350's, W760/H414, or one of the 4831's for openers. The powders I mentioned will all give decent or full fill in the 06 case. Both H and IMR 4350 are considered two of the best powders for use in the 30-06.
Paul B.
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Ger34
Junior Member



Canada
44 Posts

Posted - Oct 02 2015 :  20:37:34  Show Profile Send Ger34 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
thanks guys... I think I may still do a bit of tweaking with my Weatherby '06.... I used to get better groups when I first purchased it......maybe a Timney trigger or change it to a full floating barrel instead of a front pressure point

the other '06 I am working with is my b-in-laws and has "high rise" or "see through" mounts... he tends to be the "running shot" guy.... extremely difficult to get a consistent cheek meld with those sights... so i'll end up with 2 touching and the third will b 3.5" away... or i'll get 2 within 1" of each other and third will b 3" away... is that likely shooter error? the best group (other than the 2 mentioned above) is 57gr of H4350 in his rifle and gave me 3 stacked 1" apart... consistent right to left... but stacked

Edited by - Ger34 on Oct 02 2015 21:59:28
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Shastaboat
Advanced Member



USA
9124 Posts

Posted - Oct 02 2015 :  21:33:17  Show Profile Send Shastaboat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Everything you are thinking. Change the see through mounts on the b-in-law's rifle or let him worry about hitting anything with it. He should also think about a lower power scope if he is shooting running game. What is your trigger pull weight now and is it smooth? I would certainly consider full floating the barrel first if the trigger is decent. The other issue is to check the action screws and is the bedding correct?

Edited by - Shastaboat on Oct 02 2015 23:48:03
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Bobo7mmmag
Advanced Member

3018 Posts

Posted - Oct 04 2015 :  11:50:24  Show Profile Send Bobo7mmmag a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Two close and the third out could be barrel heat or gun rest's moving on you.
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Bobo7mmmag
Advanced Member

3018 Posts

Posted - Oct 04 2015 :  11:51:48  Show Profile Send Bobo7mmmag a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Two close and the third out could be barrel heat or gun rest's moving on you.
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Zero333
Advanced Member



Canada
811 Posts

Posted - Oct 04 2015 :  21:43:22  Show Profile Send Zero333 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
2 close to each other and the third not wanting to join the others might also be barrel harmonics. Try different charge weights or a different powder. Adjusting the COAL can also help.

Treat that trigger like itís your first date, not like youíve been married to it for 20 years.
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Zero333
Advanced Member



Canada
811 Posts

Posted - Oct 04 2015 :  21:51:44  Show Profile Send Zero333 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ger34. Check out Hodgdon Reloading center website and go from there, they list Hodgdon, IMR and Winchester powders.

You can also tell us what Bullet you're using and we'll give you our advice.

Treat that trigger like itís your first date, not like youíve been married to it for 20 years.
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noylj
Advanced Member



USA
553 Posts

Posted - Oct 10 2015 :  02:06:13  Show Profile Send noylj a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How does factory ammo shoot? That is your baseline. If you are much less accurate than good factory ammo, you may have a loading issue. If as accurate or more, you don't have a loading issue.
Flyers are generally due to shooter error or bedding issues or barrel heating.

Then said he unto them; But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Luke 22:36
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