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 Reloading Berdan cases with Boxer primers
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manobras
New Member



10 Posts

Posted - Nov 07 2016 :  10:15:33  Show Profile Send manobras a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello everyone,

Please brace yourselves for one more dumb question:

I shoot and reload a lot of 7.5x55 Swiss. I shoot GP 11 surplus ammo that's amazingly accurate and shoot factory PPU ammo so I can save the brass for reloading.

The problem with GP 11 brass is that it's Berdan primed and not easily reloadble. I've watched a video on youtube showing how it's possible to remove the anvil out of a Boxer primer and use it to prime a Berdan case, securing it in place with super glue.

I've reloaded one Berdan case using this method and, after firing, I didn't see anything wrong with the case head. I had marked the case head with a blue sharpie and I think the color seen near the primer is just sharpie paint.

Is this safe and can I do some more testing with this method or should I abandon it at once?

Thanks again for you patience and knowledge.

Kind regards,
MD


Kind regards,
MD

mikld
Advanced Member



USA
657 Posts

Posted - Nov 07 2016 :  12:37:56  Show Profile Send mikld a Private Message  Reply with Quote
While I've not tried the whole operation, just deprimed a bunch of Berdan cases, there is a method of keeping the sides of the berdan primer in the pocket when "converting" to Boxer and using it as a shim to make the pockets smaller for a Boxer primer. I think it was a youtube video, but sorry, I'm not sure. Personally I would look for Boxer primed brass 'cause I wouldn't go through all the trouble nor want a primer held in place with superglue...

Vocatus atque non vocatus, Dues aderit.
At least I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...
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manobras
New Member



10 Posts

Posted - Nov 07 2016 :  12:53:36  Show Profile Send manobras a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mikld

While I've not tried the whole operation, just deprimed a bunch of Berdan cases, there is a method of keeping the sides of the Berdan primer in the pocket when "converting" to Boxer and using it as a shim to make the pockets smaller for a Boxer primer. I think it was a YouTube video, but sorry, I'm not sure. Personally I would look for Boxer primed brass 'cause I wouldn't go through all the trouble nor want a primer held in place with superglue...



Converting a Berdan case to Boxer, is to complicated and difficult to someone like me who has the dexterity of a primate. I wouldn't dare doing it. On the other hand it's pretty easy to remove the anvil on an Boxer primer and superglue it to a Berdan case.


Kind regards,
MD
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Shastaboat
Advanced Member



USA
9124 Posts

Posted - Nov 07 2016 :  21:58:26  Show Profile Send Shastaboat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would not recommend your super glue procedure. It may work if nothing else is available but as you state PPU cases are readily available. There are tools and Berdan primers available to reload Berdan cases correctly. For my thought it is way too time consuming, and as you admit your dexterity is on the low side...lol...
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EnglishTom
Advanced Member

United Kingdom
767 Posts

Posted - Nov 07 2016 :  22:32:03  Show Profile  Click to see EnglishTom's MSN Messenger address Send EnglishTom a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There is no need for super glue,, I do this conversion to a lot of 303Brit cases.. It all depends which Berdan primers you have. if they are #126 its a simple turning operation with a 3mm end mill.... if it is a #86 Berdan you need a .5"/13mm ball bearing. support the pocket base with a steel rod, place the ball bearing in the pocket and hit with a hammer ( light blows till you get the feel for how much impact you need) What you are doing is swaging the shoulders of the pocket inward by 0.007". To check pocket size use a pocket swager I use an rcbs one. If you wish to do the full Boxer conversion PM me and ill give you all the info,,,, its not as bad as to do youd think
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F. Guffey
Advanced Member

USA
961 Posts

Posted - Nov 08 2016 :  13:44:19  Show Profile  Visit F. Guffey's Homepage Send F. Guffey a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/berdan_supplies_dimensions.html


Primers have two dimensions; one is the diameter and the other is the height.

If I was desperate and had Berdan cases and boxer primers I would crimp the smaller diameter primers into the larger Boxer primer pockets.

I would support the case with an anvil inside the case and then crimp the primer with a crimp tool similar to the crimping tool used by R-P used on 30/06 that were to be used in machine guns. I would not use the crimp on old fired and worn out cases. The crimp tool would be larger in diameter than the primer pocket, by design the crimp would upset/move the brass and at the same time reduce the diameter of the hole.

A reloader could use a mandrel in the hole to assure the correct size of they could use a threaded 'U' clamp of they could modify a press.

F. Guffey
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manobras
New Member



10 Posts

Posted - Nov 10 2016 :  11:19:29  Show Profile Send manobras a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by F. Guffey

quote:
http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/berdan_supplies_dimensions.html


Primers have two dimensions; one is the diameter and the other is the height.

If I was desperate and had Berdan cases and boxer primers I would crimp the smaller diameter primers into the larger Boxer primer pockets.

I would support the case with an anvil inside the case and then crimp the primer with a crimp tool similar to the crimping tool used by R-P used on 30/06 that were to be used in machine guns. I would not use the crimp on old fired and worn out cases. The crimp tool would be larger in diameter than the primer pocket, by design the crimp would upset/move the brass and at the same time reduce the diameter of the hole.

A reloader could use a mandrel in the hole to assure the correct size of they could use a threaded 'U' clamp of they could modify a press.

F. Guffey



Thank you for your answer.

I fail to fully understand your post.

Can you, please, post a link to a video or an article with some pictures illustrating what you've just said?


Kind regards,
MD
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F. Guffey
Advanced Member

USA
961 Posts

Posted - Nov 10 2016 :  13:40:48  Show Profile  Visit F. Guffey's Homepage Send F. Guffey a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
I fail to fully understand your post.


And that is OK; not being able to fully understand puts you with the majority. I would suggest you improve on your shop skills and study the definitions of terms index in the back of most reloading manuals and shop type books. When working with the brass reloaders must understand the meaning of a few terms. Starting with upset and peening and then there is swage and anvils. I have never had a problem with reducing the diameter of a primer pocket; I would not think of reducing the diameter of a primer pocket on a work hardened case.

And then there was the 'OLD' Navy, it is said they had glupe makers, some were machinist, some were called machinist mates. There was some resentment in the Navy because it was believed the glupe makers made more money. Had it not been for that no one would have ever heard of a 'glupe maker'.

F. Guffey


Edited by - F. Guffey on Nov 10 2016 13:48:37
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Ireload2
Senior Member

USA
286 Posts

Posted - Nov 12 2016 :  12:08:04  Show Profile Send Ireload2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You might write a few letters to your congress critter asking for help with to get Trump to turn on the flow of Russian berdan primers.
I think it was one of Obama's executive actions. Trump should be able to write an exception for berdan small arms primers for us green guys so we can recycle our brass. ;)


Glupe.
Sitting around doing nothing, being lazy, moping around, or being a slug.

Edited by - Ireload2 on Nov 12 2016 12:11:04
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Kosh75287
Advanced Member



USA
796 Posts

Posted - Nov 12 2016 :  14:45:25  Show Profile Send Kosh75287 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The technique involved in repriming Berdan-primed cases with Boxer primers is interesting. I hope never to be in a situation in which I must mix & match cases and primers, but it's of SOME comfort to know that such things are not impossible. I'm somewhat less concerned about the eventuality of living in a totalitarian state where such items are heavily restricted, but there IS a presidential election every four years. It never hurts to learn another way of turning lemons into lemonade.

God bless Jeff Cooper

Carpe SCOTCH!
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Ireload2
Senior Member

USA
286 Posts

Posted - Nov 15 2016 :  20:21:31  Show Profile Send Ireload2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Guffey are you unable to proof your own work???

The reason people do not understand your posts is you get stuff backward and post nonsense.
Why don't you try rereading your own posts and then come up with some rationale for getting it wrong?

While you are at it please try to find a definition of glupe.

quote:
Originally posted by F. Guffey

quote:
http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/berdan_supplies_dimensions.html


Primers have two dimensions; one is the diameter and the other is the height.

If I was desperate and had Berdan cases and boxer primers I would crimp the smaller diameter primers into the larger Boxer primer pockets.

I would support the case with an anvil inside the case and then crimp the primer with a crimp tool similar to the crimping tool used by R-P used on 30/06 that were to be used in machine guns. I would not use the crimp on old fired and worn out cases. The crimp tool would be larger in diameter than the primer pocket, by design the crimp would upset/move the brass and at the same time reduce the diameter of the hole.

A reloader could use a mandrel in the hole to assure the correct size of they could use a threaded 'U' clamp of they could modify a press.

F. Guffey


Edited by - Ireload2 on Nov 15 2016 20:27:46
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F. Guffey
Advanced Member

USA
961 Posts

Posted - Nov 16 2016 :  10:10:06  Show Profile  Visit F. Guffey's Homepage Send F. Guffey a Private Message  Reply with Quote


Fitting the small primer into a larger diameter hole is all about the 'glupe'. I have salvaged thousands of components and save time and money with the principle of the glupe. There was a movie about a a sailor in charge of a ship; he carried two ball bearings in his pocket. Problem: He did not know what to do with them.

F. Guffey
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F. Guffey
Advanced Member

USA
961 Posts

Posted - Nov 16 2016 :  10:23:42  Show Profile  Visit F. Guffey's Homepage Send F. Guffey a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I could say you are mechanically challenged but that would be mean and rude. And then there is your infarction with the Vernier height gage. I have height gages, one is a 36" Vernier Brown & Sharpe Precision Center complete with the 40" wood tool box.

Because I am the fan of verifying the Vernier has never slowed me down. For everyone else the Vernier height gage has become obsolete and they complain about getting old and poor vision. Not me, I do not cuss the darkness, I light a candle. Again, it does not hurt to be able to verify.

F. Guffey
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Ireload2
Senior Member

USA
286 Posts

Posted - Feb 15 2017 :  00:56:21  Show Profile Send Ireload2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Speaking of challenged

Infarction is tissue death (necrosis) due to inadequate blood supply to the affected area (ischemia). It may be caused by artery blockages, rupture, mechanical compression or vasoconstriction.[1] The resulting lesion is referred to as an infarct[2][3] (from the Latin infarctus, "stuffed into").[4]


quote:
Originally posted by F. Guffey

I could say you are mechanically challenged but that would be mean and rude. And then there is your infarction with the Vernier height gage. I have height gages, one is a 36" Vernier Brown & Sharpe Precision Center complete with the 40" wood tool box.

Because I am the fan of verifying the Vernier has never slowed me down. For everyone else the Vernier height gage has become obsolete and they complain about getting old and poor vision. Not me, I do not cuss the darkness, I light a candle. Again, it does not hurt to be able to verify.

F. Guffey

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