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 How to fine-tune seating depth ?
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herbeapuce
Average Member

Canada
181 Posts

Posted - Apr 10 2017 :  18:26:54  Show Profile Send herbeapuce a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi
so I read seating depth is tha bomb...it is what wins match..

What is the best technique to find the best seating depth ?

do you go in series of 5, starting at 0.050 off the lands, then 0.040, and so one, up to deep in the lands ? ( this is what I would do btw...)

How do you do it please? please share your technique ?

(and I can't do the ladder test... range in only 200 yards max.)

Thanks for your help
Stef

woods
Advanced Member

USA
2132 Posts

Posted - Apr 10 2017 :  21:14:26  Show Profile Send woods a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I start at .015" off and seat deeper in .015" increments. IMO anything less will take too much time and too many shots. Of equal if not more important is the lowest Extreme Spread and Standard Deviation in velocities

Examples of seating depth tests









When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others.

After Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

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Shastaboat
Advanced Member



USA
9124 Posts

Posted - Apr 10 2017 :  23:12:35  Show Profile Send Shastaboat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Are you shooting in a match or just trying to shoot accurate ammo for hunting and plinking? There is way too much BS emphasis trying to chase the lands. Make an error and load into the lands and pressure can skyrocket. Have you measured your rifle's throat first. Are you already loading close to max? Try .100" off the lands and then move .010" at a time to no closer than .050 while you test the same load. Is pressure increasing? Is accuracy increasing? Remember ..050 is less than 1/16th of an inch.

Honestly, based on your question you aren't ready to search the answer.

Notice in Wood's example the best accuracy with two rifle/ammo combo's was .075" off the lands.

Edited by - Shastaboat on Apr 10 2017 23:23:35
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herbeapuce
Average Member

Canada
181 Posts

Posted - Apr 11 2017 :  15:51:13  Show Profile Send herbeapuce a Private Message  Reply with Quote
don't worry Shastaboat I'm well aware of pressure spike, and the do and don't ... the purpose of this post is to have people list how they go about finding their seating depth. I got this older 6mm rem with a custom barrel .. my goal with this old gun is to have 5 bullets touching at 100y... right now I'm at 0.015 off the lands and I have no intention to go closer. my load is not near max, but in the middle. no pressure signs.
thank you Woods, I will try what you do , and also pay attention to sd and es
thanks guys
Stef


Edited by - herbeapuce on Apr 11 2017 17:12:54
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Shastaboat
Advanced Member



USA
9124 Posts

Posted - Apr 11 2017 :  15:59:34  Show Profile Send Shastaboat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
OK, How about posting a pic of your rifle?
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herbeapuce
Average Member

Canada
181 Posts

Posted - Apr 11 2017 :  17:04:04  Show Profile Send herbeapuce a Private Message  Reply with Quote
OK, how about this one ...
like I said it's an older gun, a Carl Gustaf 1917 with a Douglas bull . got it used a month ago.


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Shastaboat
Advanced Member



USA
9124 Posts

Posted - Apr 11 2017 :  22:37:32  Show Profile Send Shastaboat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
OK, It's a model 38 or 96 Swede action which means it is a small ring Mauser action and not a 98. Has it been converted to cock on opening or is it still cock on closing? Many try to say these actions are not as strong as a 98 but I for one will disagree with that premise. A small ring action does not have as large a gas shield on the bolt shroud or the 3rd locking lug as a 98 but neither do Remington 700 actions. Does it have an original 2 stage military trigger or has it been upgraded with an adjustable trigger? As in all firearms the pressure limits are set by the action itself and not SAAMI or any other arbitrary organization. The Swedish Mauser actions are one of the finest Mauser actions ever made. What kind of groups are you getting now and have you chronographed any of your loads?
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herbeapuce
Average Member

Canada
181 Posts

Posted - Apr 12 2017 :  15:01:05  Show Profile Send herbeapuce a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Open cock bolt (Me bad ! Edited: no it is not. the bolt is in reality a Cock On Closing (COC)..), Original trigger ( I really like this trigger and so simple to take down and clean....) 26 inch pipe, 1 in 10"
I fired the gun twice; once with Berger 95 classic hunter, from 43 to 45.5 H-4350. The grouping wasn't great. I would say 1.25 inch ( 3 shot group). Speed was 3150 to 3315. (45.5 was a bit hot, won't use it anymore....)
After that I bedded the recoil lug. Then I tried with Berger 80 FB varmint. Groups were much better. The problem is , when shooting also from 43 to 45.5 H-4350, I would always get 2 very close hit, some touching, and then a flyer ( 3 shot group ) the best load seems to be around 44g , 3333fps, 3/4" counting the flyer. so now I want to play with the seating depth and see if it eliminates the flyers..

Edited by - herbeapuce on Apr 12 2017 20:03:56
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Shastaboat
Advanced Member



USA
9124 Posts

Posted - Apr 12 2017 :  16:28:28  Show Profile Send Shastaboat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You are listening to the rifle. Years ago I built a 6mm Rem using a 24" Shaw barrel on a M-1917 Eddystone action. I was able to shoot 80 gr. Speers at 3580 fps with excellent accuracy with 48 gr of 4350. I was using this rifle on rockchucks when I lived in Pocatello, ID. I certainly would not recommend my load to you. I just quoted it to show the comparison. 44 gr is probably the place to be for your rifle. Those berger bullets are premium. You might try the Speer 80 gr SP's. I don't have much of my data but I recall the rifle as a tack driver. I credit the Shaw barreled work for that. They did the barrel work and I did all the other streamling of the action. You really didn't know it started out as a dog leg M-17.

Anyway back to your endeavor. Try moving those bullets out about .005 at a time if the magazine allows, or it might be easier to start long at .010 off the lands and move your seater in .005 at a time with your 44 gr. load. Keep us posted.
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Shastaboat
Advanced Member



USA
9124 Posts

Posted - Apr 12 2017 :  16:34:00  Show Profile Send Shastaboat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just read one of your prior posts and you are .015 off the lands. Just try moving the seater in .005 at a time and see if anything improves.
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woods
Advanced Member

USA
2132 Posts

Posted - Apr 12 2017 :  21:43:25  Show Profile Send woods a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by herbeapuce


I would always get 2 very close hit, some touching, and then a flyer ( 3 shot group )





Have heard many times:

If you are getting good groups with flyers, move away from the lands

If you are getting large group but consistent, no flyers, move toward the lands


Now I don't believe this is always true and maybe not even most of the time, but it is advice that is worth what you paid for it





When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others.

After Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

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Shastaboat
Advanced Member



USA
9124 Posts

Posted - Apr 13 2017 :  11:05:32  Show Profile Send Shastaboat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I also see that you reported the action is still cock on closing with the original military trigger. If you want to shoot small groups, you will need to get a Dayton Traister "cock on opening" conversion with adjustable trigger. The conversion makes the action a speed lock and shortens the striker throw to about 3/8". Ive done numerous of these conversions on small ring Mauser actions and it is the only way to go. Here is the info. http://www.daytraco.com/

You want the DSL 93. You can do the alteration to the bolt with a Dremmel tool.

Edited by - Shastaboat on Apr 13 2017 11:06:42
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Fotheringill
New Member



USA
15 Posts

Posted - Apr 13 2017 :  14:27:30  Show Profile Send Fotheringill a Private Message  Reply with Quote
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2009/03/berger-tips-for-loading-vld-bullets/

This will put you on the right track. It is a short article with explicit instructions.
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herbeapuce
Average Member

Canada
181 Posts

Posted - Apr 13 2017 :  15:15:10  Show Profile Send herbeapuce a Private Message  Reply with Quote
thank you very much for you help guys.
if the gun is a keeper, I will consider this conversion kit.
I need to shoot it more, and right now I don't have much time...
stef.
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woods
Advanced Member

USA
2132 Posts

Posted - Apr 14 2017 :  03:02:14  Show Profile Send woods a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fotheringill

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2009/03/berger-tips-for-loading-vld-bullets/

This will put you on the right track. It is a short article with explicit instructions.




This part of that article is definitely wrong

Be aware that, as you load your cartridge progressively shorter, putting the bullet deeper into the case, you will be reducing the effective case capacity dramatically. With smaller cases, such as the .223 Rem and 6mmBR, moving from .010 into the lands to .080 and .120 off the lands can CAUSE a dramatic pressure rise. So, a load .010 into the lands that may be safe can be WAY OVERPRESSURE with the bullet seated .120 off the lands (i.e. .130 deeper in the case, the difference between .010 in and .120 out).

In EVERY seating depth test I have done the velocity (runs parallel with pressure) has decreased with seating deeper. Probably faulty data input into Quirkload that takes the lower case volume to mean a smaller combustion chamber, BUT it is not the case that holds the pressure but the chamber walls.

When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others.

After Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

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WonderMan4
Advanced Member

USA
2849 Posts

Posted - Apr 14 2017 :  08:39:57  Show Profile Send WonderMan4 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
^^^^^^^
No matter how hard you try, they never learn.

Instead of believing proven facts, hearsay seems to always prevail.
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