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 Primers not firing
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Smbenoit_79
New Member

USA
13 Posts

Posted - Apr 22 2017 :  20:33:56  Show Profile Send Smbenoit_79 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I de-capped and primed almost 1k 5.56 using the white CCI primers. The first time I had just stared so I didn't know you had to chamfer the primer pocket of military brass that has been crimped. I've had issues with the primers getting struck by the firing pin but not all firing. I just did a test run and out of 30 rounds 6 didn't fire. 3 I tried again and they fired. I chamfered each pocket this round. Possibly not enough. Some of the brass was still kinda hard to prime. Had to really press it in. Any ideas or suggestions?

Onondaga
Advanced Member



USA
4017 Posts

Posted - Apr 22 2017 :  22:49:33  Show Profile Send Onondaga a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I recommend you check 2 basic things first:

1) primers should be seated flush with case head, check with straight edge and optical magnification 6-10x

2) verify that firing pin protrusion in the fired position meets manufacturer specification.

Your sized brass relation to your chamber can also effect miss-fire but that is much more complex to verify. Sizing die adjustment can help.

Gary

Fine rifles are never really owned.
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WonderMan4
Advanced Member

USA
2851 Posts

Posted - Apr 23 2017 :  01:44:41  Show Profile Send WonderMan4 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
From Hodgdon Rloading:

"
Primer Seating Depth

Primer seating depth – how far the primer is inserted into the shell case – is carefully controlled in factory ammunition. You also need to be aware of primer seating depth when reloading. Seating the primer too deep below flush can damage the internal components, leading to misfires and inconsistent ignition. Seating the primer too high (above flush) can cause the cylinder to not rotate in revolvers, and can cause problems when the bolt slams home in semi-autos. Seating above flush can also result in misfires.

Unless you are reloading on a progressive machine (each pull of the handle yields a loaded cartridge), the primer seating depth is controlled by feel as the primer is inserted. This is especially true if you are using a handheld priming tool. The primer seating depth is best checked with your finger tip. Sliding the index finger across the bottom of the primed shell case will quickly determine if the primer is above or below flush.

The ideal seating depth is just below flush. As you gain experience in loading, the feel to accomplish this will become familiar. It is best to use your finger to test every primed shell case. If the primer is above flush it can be run through the seating operation again to push it below flush.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-education/reloading-beginners/primer-seating-depth


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Smbenoit_79
New Member

USA
13 Posts

Posted - Apr 23 2017 :  09:30:06  Show Profile Send Smbenoit_79 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you both. I do check each round to make sure it's flush or a little below. I'm going to seperate the surplus brass from the standard and see which ones have issues.
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Shastaboat
Advanced Member



USA
9125 Posts

Posted - Apr 23 2017 :  09:33:29  Show Profile Send Shastaboat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The last time we discussed this issue, the problem was traced to the weapon. This time I'm sure it can be traced to "failure to swage the primer pocket and subsequent poor primer seating in that brass.
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Smbenoit_79
New Member

USA
13 Posts

Posted - Apr 23 2017 :  14:17:12  Show Profile Send Smbenoit_79 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Shastaboat

The last time we discussed this issue, the problem was traced to the weapon. This time I'm sure it can be traced to "failure to swage the primer pocket and subsequent poor primer seating in that brass.



I read more on Swage vs deburring or cutting the crimp out. I just brought home a deburring tool and was using that. I'm guessing it wasn't cutting properly to get the crimps out as the primer was still a little tough to get in. Any suggestions on what swage tool to use? I have a Lee turret press so either one to use with the press or just one to use alone that I can set up and do bulk brass.
Thanks again
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Shastaboat
Advanced Member



USA
9125 Posts

Posted - Apr 23 2017 :  14:53:05  Show Profile Send Shastaboat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think your LEE press is aluminum. I would not use it for swaging primer pockets. Just about any cast iron press will work just fine. I've been using an RCBS primer pocket swage die set for 50 years. I use a LEE Pro1000 for loading all pistol and .223. I guess you could try using your LEE turret and if it breaks, LEE will replace the broken part. The primer pocket swage pressure isn't really that much.
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Onondaga
Advanced Member



USA
4017 Posts

Posted - Apr 23 2017 :  17:03:42  Show Profile Send Onondaga a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Smbenoit_79

The press tools do a great job of consistency but are very slow.

I have chamfered 10s of thousands of Mil Brass primer pockets using a 1/4" ball burr in a Dremel. It takes practice but my consistency is fine now. it is personal based on results and a consistent medium push for a fast 4 count works for me. It is a feel and count thing. I succeeded in getting a bevel the same length as the radius that the die presses into a primer pocket and remove the least amount of metal with the ball burr to do the job right..

Gary

Fine rifles are never really owned.
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Zero333
Advanced Member



Canada
812 Posts

Posted - Apr 27 2017 :  01:08:38  Show Profile Send Zero333 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Try different brand of primers just to be sure the ones you have didn't get spoiled somewhere somehow.

If the firing pin spring is not very strong it can cause failures to fire, and in such a case I recommend trying Federal primers, or Winchester if you can't get Federal.

Like already mentioned, Some dies can size the brass a bit too much if set up as per the instructions to overcam. If you have long headspace and brass that is sized too far, it can give too light of a primer strike since the firing pin can't reach the primer as much.

Firing pin protrusion is always good to check once in a while.
You never know if something is in the way of the firing pin (like crud build up), preventing it from reaching it's full stroke.


Treat that trigger like it’s your first date, not like you’ve been married to it for 20 years.
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mikld
Advanced Member



USA
657 Posts

Posted - Apr 27 2017 :  16:27:20  Show Profile Send mikld a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ninety+ percent of primer problems with new reloaders is failure to seat them completely. K.I.S.S., for now and forget about "below flush measurements" for primer seating just make sure the primers are seated all the way to the bottom of the pocket. (one good reason for a beginner to use a ram prime). Run the primers in until you feel a solid stop, mebbe a touch more pressure just to make sure. As long as the primers don't stick out above the case head, and they are seated completely, you'l be good. I have never heard of a primer going off from heavy seating, so just make sure they are seated completely.

As a lifelong machinist/mechanic the first time I ran into primer crimps I immediately thought of a countersink. A couple twists, or chuck one in a drill and push for 1/2 second, is all that is needed to remove the crimps. Just look closely and you'll see when the disrupted metal is removed...
https://www.mcmaster.com/#countersinks/=135h8he

Vocatus atque non vocatus, Dues aderit.
At least I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

Edited by - mikld on Apr 27 2017 16:32:33
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DUSTY NOGGIN
Advanced Member



USA
761 Posts

Posted - Apr 30 2017 :  11:10:12  Show Profile Send DUSTY NOGGIN a Private Message  Reply with Quote
dillon super swage 600 ,

i guarantee once you try it ,you will like the off press technique of swaging better than all other ways to fix the crimped pockets

  • its very FAST !!! ive seen a five gallon bucket full (6k), get swaged in about 6-7 hrs
  • you will end up noticing that after swaging , all primer pressing will have very similar seating pressure
  • another good bonus , about swaging big batches like that is when you notice/feel a very loose pocket that will probably not hold a primer solid , you can just scrap it then rather than having that loose primer pocket interrupting your normal loading rhythm
  • when swaging off press you get to inspect every single piece prior to starting reload process
  • separate head stamp ( 223 & 556 for instance ) by feel of swage , you can tell by feel which ones needed crimped & which ones didnt , put em in separate buckets an you will see at the end one bucket will be full of only mil spec & other will have high percentage of 223
  • its only 100 and will always work if you dont have a battery or power
  • and it is already painted blue, so you dont have to
  • calm familiar voice
  • you are getting sleepy ............. very sleepy
  • you feel a release of pressure on your bill fold
  • deep full breath in
  • im telling myself, i really want a dillon 600
  • deep full breath out
  • when you wake up you will find a dillon 600 already mounted to your bench






Edited by - DUSTY NOGGIN on Apr 30 2017 11:30:58
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Tracy
Starting Member

USA
3 Posts

Posted - Aug 30 2017 :  14:40:17  Show Profile Send Tracy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've only had a problem with primers firing one one occasion in 50 years and it was when I was using Remington large rifle magnum primers. I had 4 misfires in 20 rounds. That was enough for me to go back to Winchester or Fiocchi primers which I'd been using because 6 years ago there was nothing else available. I decided to go bach to Winchester primers because the Fiocchi primers were a tighter fit in the brass. I decided to save them for when my primer pockets loosened more.
Even after 11 reloads, my Lapua brass is still a tighter fit for Fiocchi primers.
However they don't seem to influence the accuracy of my loads as much as I thought they might.

Fiocchi primers come in a carton of 1500 with a significantly lower price per primer that the other major brands. Worth considering!
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