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 Siamese mauser
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toot
New Member

USA
18 Posts

Posted - May 13 2017 :  16:28:52  Show Profile Send toot a Private Message  Reply with Quote
how do I make brass for it, 8/52 m/m and what loads do I use? any and all info. would be appreciated.

Shastaboat
Advanced Member



USA
9125 Posts

Posted - May 14 2017 :  11:03:52  Show Profile Send Shastaboat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Make from 45-70 Gov't. Anneal case and run into a F/L .40-65 WCF and then .33 WCF die (a form set will do the same job). Turn rim to .556" dia and back chamfer. F/L size in 8x52R die. Case may (usually) need I.D. neck reaming. F/L size again.

From J.J. Donnelly 7 Bryce Towsley "HANDLOADER'S MANUAL OF CARTRIDGE CONVERSIONS

Single load data: 180 gr, 40 gr of 4320, vel 2000 fps.

Edited by - Shastaboat on May 14 2017 11:05:12
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Ireload2
Senior Member

USA
286 Posts

Posted - Jul 11 2017 :  21:21:27  Show Profile Send Ireload2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Reloading data can be found in old copies of Handloader Magazine.
I can help you form cases if you find a set of 8X52 FL dies. I have a wide variety of other dies that can be used to form these cases including the 40-65, 38-56 and .33 Win form dies.
Send me a PM if you need help.

Check out Doc AV at gunboards. I know he is a very reliable cartridge maker and his comments are accurate.
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?74632-8x-52-siamese-mauser

Be sure to slug your bore to find out the groove diameter. If it is oversize you may need oversize bullets.

quote:
Originally posted by toot

how do I make brass for it, 8/52 m/m and what loads do I use? any and all info. would be appreciated.


Edited by - Ireload2 on Jul 11 2017 21:32:58
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Rapidrob
Senior Member

USA
455 Posts

Posted - Aug 02 2017 :  12:54:38  Show Profile Send Rapidrob a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've been reloading this cartridge for several decades. You can make it as posted from .45-70 and 8x56R. 7.62x54R can be used in a pinch.
1886 Lebel shoots in my club and is a co-author of the Siamese Mauser Book.He has worked out all the best accurate loads and has them spot on.
He has posted many articles and load date on Gunboards.
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?24993-Siamese-8x50Rmm-and-8x52Rmm-reloading-info&highlight=Siamese
One thing you need to know and understand about this cartridge. While it is a large cartridge it is not loaded to "hot-rod" velocities and cannot be.
The problem is not rifle strength, as it is very strong, it is the rifling twist. It is too fast to shoot a bullet pushed faster than 2,200 ( maybe 2,400) FPS. Been there wasted that. It will also foul badly. Keep the loads down to what they designed it to be and the rifle shoots very well out to 800 yards.

Gulf of Tonkin Yacht Club
NRA Endowment Member
President NM MILSURPS

Edited by - Rapidrob on Aug 02 2017 12:56:17
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Ireload2
Senior Member

USA
286 Posts

Posted - Aug 05 2017 :  03:04:24  Show Profile Send Ireload2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
RapidRob
Have you ever slugged your barrel to find out what the groove diameter is? I notice that 1886 Lebel shoots .323 bullets. This may be the cause of accuracy problems if his groove diameter is much larger than his bullets.
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Rapidrob
Senior Member

USA
455 Posts

Posted - Aug 05 2017 :  17:38:19  Show Profile Send Rapidrob a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have. In my rifles the true bore is .326 on avg. The lands are much taller than rifles today and if the bullet is kept to 2,200 fps they ride the rifling well. The top of the lands on my rifle with a like new bore is .319 the other is .321*
That being said,I am testing French surplus Lebel bullets of 206 grains that measure .327/8 depending who made them ( measured right behind the canalure which is the thickest section of the bullet.
This bullet is a Spitzer Boat tail and does not cause any pressure problems what so ever.
I will be doing a range test in the AM at 300 yards which is a good close range for accuracy.
Many folks shoot the .329 and 330 bullets for the 8x56R out of their rifles. Some size down,some do not. I don't see a pressure problem but would be concerned about bore fouling from the bullet jacket.
LEE will make a custom bullet sizer for a fair price and I've heard .327/8 works very well in the Siamese Mauser.
I have tried "as dropped" from the mold, .324 bullets and powder coated then to .326 and they shot well at 2,000 fps. A good 100 yard load.
The cartridge is a challenge to load for due to the large casing. The powders that give you 100% load density have not proven to be the best powders for this cartridge as they are too slow. That being said, crimping is mandentory for the best accuracy.
*.321 is the original 8x50R bore size.I do not own an early Siamese Mauser to check the bore.

Gulf of Tonkin Yacht Club
NRA Endowment Member
President NM MILSURPS
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Onondaga
Advanced Member



USA
4017 Posts

Posted - Aug 05 2017 :  23:09:33  Show Profile Send Onondaga a Private Message  Reply with Quote
toot,

An easy powder selection to consider for experimentation is H4895, it is not position sensitive and ignites well down to 1/2 of available case volume. H4895 is also kind to cast bullets liking a non peaky pressure curve or soft start. 60% of available case volume is a good safe start load for military rifle cartridge experimental loads. The 60% load will generally yield ~ 2000 fps in military rifle cartridges and the standard safety of watching pressure signs for progressive warnings is certainly good when load working up. Varget is very similar to H4895 and has lower ES of velocity. Neither need or require filler at 60% volume.

Gary

Fine rifles are never really owned.
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Rapidrob
Senior Member

USA
455 Posts

Posted - Aug 07 2017 :  17:58:54  Show Profile Send Rapidrob a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I took two loads using the same powder charge 42.2 grains of IMR4320 and French 206 grain SPBT bullets. Half were sized down from .327 to .323
The target was a 24x24" AR500 plate set at 300 meters. The rifle's sights were not regulated for our 6,000 feet above sea level range and my shots went 8 feet above the target even with the slider all the way back.
I was able to hold low under the target and get several hits. Both loads shot within one foot of one another. The larger diameter bullet did have a little more felt recoil but there was no sign what so ever of any pressure problems. They seemed to seal the bore very well.
I installed a Brownell's extra tall front sight today and will return to the range and try again with both loads.
When cleaning the rifle's bore I did not see that is was fouled excessively,in fact I got only slightly green colored patches from the jacket solvent.
I would have not have any compunctions to shooting a .327 size bullet in the 8mm Siamese Rifles using a 2,200-400 fps load.

Gulf of Tonkin Yacht Club
NRA Endowment Member
President NM MILSURPS
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Rapidrob
Senior Member

USA
455 Posts

Posted - Aug 14 2017 :  10:29:56  Show Profile Send Rapidrob a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I installed the Brownell's "Tall front sight for Mausers" blank on one of my Siamese Mausers and the rounds matched the sights perfectly.
The .323 bullets did not group well. Minute-of-Man was hard to hold and there were many fliers at 300 meters.
My one rifle is as close to "new" as you will find. Bore is perfect.
The .327 French MG bullet shoot 2 MOA even in a hot barrel. Several of my club's members shot my rifle/loads and all did very well on target with no misses. I had them shoot the .323 bullets and they too shot all over the target with fliers.
I will shoot the rifle at 800 yards soon as well as other bullets of .327 diameter and do a range report.

Gulf of Tonkin Yacht Club
NRA Endowment Member
President NM MILSURPS
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Rapidrob
Senior Member

USA
455 Posts

Posted - Aug 27 2017 :  19:50:56  Show Profile Send Rapidrob a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I used the rifle today at my clubs Rams set to 300 meters. From the prone I took 2ND place. The rifle performed very well and my bullets that missed were just over by inches or between the rams legs, Recoil was stout but manageable.
The French .327 bullets performed very well on target transferring energy into the 60 pound target enough to send the rams backwards off of the rail smartly.
I will do a range report using these bullets and my posted load at 800 yards. I'm sure the rifle will do well.

Gulf of Tonkin Yacht Club
NRA Endowment Member
President NM MILSURPS
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