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 T/C Contender Rifle 45-70
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determined451
Advanced Member

988 Posts

Posted - Aug 12 2017 :  17:07:59  Show Profile  Click to see determined451's MSN Messenger address  Send determined451 a Yahoo! Message Send determined451 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Want to load the 300 Hornady XTP with IMR 3031 for deer

The Second Amendment.. America's Original Homeland Security

Onondaga
Advanced Member



USA
4017 Posts

Posted - Aug 12 2017 :  19:34:11  Show Profile Send Onondaga a Private Message  Reply with Quote
determined451,

Powder manufacturers make the safest recommendations. IMR does recommend their IMR3031 for 45-70 with a 300 gr jacketed bullet in their basic January 2009 reloading manual, page 25. There is NO recommended START or MAXIMUM it is a capacity only load of 59.5 gr at 2021 fps at 22,000 CUP in a 24" barrel Trapdoor rifle.

The load will certainly be a safe recommendation for a TC and a better than decent Deer load. You will likely get 1900 fps from your rifle and that yields a maximum range for a 1,000 foot pound impact humane harvest level out at 180 yards maximum. A better than decent Deer load if your rifle likes it.

The "capacity only" loads are a safety precaution from IMR that ignition problems are likely if you reduce from a capacity load. Don't ignore that. That also means you cannot overload a 45-70 with a 300 gr jacketed bullet and IMR3031. The powder density is too low to over load and its burn will not create an over pressure with a 300 gr jacketed bullet.

Unfortunately, "capacity only" loads leave no room for experimenting. You try only that load and see if your rifle likes it on paper. Resistance is futile against IMR3031 in your application. You can only try one recommended load.

The 59.5 gr of IMR3031 will be a compressed load. A crimp is indicated even though your rifle is a single shot. The crimp is important for ignition with that charge and important to keep the compressed charge from pushing your bullet out and varying your LOA. You can use a drop tube to condense the charge also.

Make sure your Hornady XTP bullet is .458" for 45-70. Do not use the .452" Hornady XTPs in 45-70. The .452's would shoot all over the place because they are too small.

Gary

Fine rifles are never really owned.

Edited by - Onondaga on Aug 13 2017 01:01:49
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WonderMan4
Advanced Member

USA
2851 Posts

Posted - Aug 13 2017 :  09:30:16  Show Profile Send WonderMan4 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hodgdon has all the data that you need for a 300 gr bullet using IMR3031.

The only thing is that Hornady does not make the XTP bullets for the 45 caliber rifles.
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Hockeynick39
Advanced Member



USA
4690 Posts

Posted - Aug 13 2017 :  09:41:15  Show Profile  Send Hockeynick39 an AOL message Send Hockeynick39 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hornady has a 300 gr Monoflex that weighs at 300 gr for use in the .450 Marlin and .45-70 Gov't. The only XTP that Hornady lists is 325 gr. for the same cartridges. Those are also listed as .458 caliber. As Onondaga states, make sure that you are using the right bullet. Also, there are better powders to use than IMR 3031 for .45-70 Gov't. I use H322 in mine, but I also cast and use a filler for it. You may wish to look at Alliant RE-7.
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Onondaga
Advanced Member



USA
4017 Posts

Posted - Aug 13 2017 :  15:34:50  Show Profile Send Onondaga a Private Message  Reply with Quote
determined451

I don't know where you are in getting acquainted loading 45-70. Bear in mind the cartridge was designed for cast bullets and shoots better with cast bullets and cast bullet loads than it does with jacketed bullets. The 45-70 shoots best with cast bullets ~400 grains and H4198 is the most efficient and accurate powder choice in recommended loads.

400 gr bullets in 45-70 develop abusive recoil over 1700 fps , try and you will easily see that. A sensible inexpensive cast load that doesn't beat you and make you flinch is a good idea. You don't need fancy bullets in 45-70 for Deer. 45-70 kills with large caliber holes and doesn't need expansion at all. My rule for 45-70 is that if you cant shoot 50 rounds without flinching, your load is abusively too hot and you wont shoot well hunting with it.

The least expensive bullets that shoot well in 45-70 at Deer hunting load levels is the flat nose .458 Plated Rainier bullets, 350 or 405 gr. Midwayusa has them. I have shot the 350 gr at 1700 and it is a good shooter.

Gary

Fine rifles are never really owned.
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Zero333
Advanced Member



Canada
812 Posts

Posted - Aug 13 2017 :  17:17:06  Show Profile Send Zero333 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think hornady does make a .452" 300gr xtp handgun bullet.

I've never worked with the 45-70 so I'm not sure what size bullets it requires. Not all 45 cal bullets are the same size.

However...Quickload does concur with 59gr of IMR-3031 being about max with 300gr .458" Hornady HP.


Treat that trigger like it’s your first date, not like you’ve been married to it for 20 years.

Edited by - Zero333 on Aug 13 2017 17:20:18
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WonderMan4
Advanced Member

USA
2851 Posts

Posted - Aug 13 2017 :  18:25:48  Show Profile Send WonderMan4 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
The only XTP that Hornady lists is 325 gr. for the same cartridges. Those are also listed as .458 caliber


I just looked again and the only 45 cal. XTPs listed are all .0452".

There are no XTPs listed in the rifle bullet section.
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Onondaga
Advanced Member



USA
4017 Posts

Posted - Aug 13 2017 :  19:38:03  Show Profile Send Onondaga a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zero333

I think hornady does make a .452" 300gr xtp handgun bullet.

I've never worked with the 45-70 so I'm not sure what size bullets it requires. Not all 45 cal bullets are the same size.

However...Quickload does concur with 59gr of IMR-3031 being about max with 300gr .458" Hornady HP.





The 22,000 CUP listed by IMR with a 300 gr bullet with 59.5 gr IMR3031 in 45-70 is no where near MAXIMUM and is a very safe load for a TC rifle. Standard factory ammo in 45-70 is much hotter than 22,000 CUP and standard factory is fine in a TC rifle. The TC is built to handle 50,000 CUP continuous duty and that is higher than any factory ammo in 45-70.

Gary

Fine rifles are never really owned.

Edited by - Onondaga on Aug 13 2017 19:52:06
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Hockeynick39
Advanced Member



USA
4690 Posts

Posted - Aug 14 2017 :  06:26:26  Show Profile  Send Hockeynick39 an AOL message Send Hockeynick39 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by WonderMan4

quote:
The only XTP that Hornady lists is 325 gr. for the same cartridges. Those are also listed as .458 caliber


I just looked again and the only 45 cal. XTPs listed are all .0452".

There are no XTPs listed in the rifle bullet section.



Why, sir, you are correct! Maybe I was thinking FTX and not XTP. Good eye!!!!!!
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determined451
Advanced Member

988 Posts

Posted - Aug 14 2017 :  06:48:29  Show Profile  Click to see determined451's MSN Messenger address  Send determined451 a Yahoo! Message Send determined451 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
WM4, thanks for the correction..You are correct. I looked at the box again. .Hornady 45cal.,458 dia.,300gr HP. #4500

The Second Amendment.. America's Original Homeland Security
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WonderMan4
Advanced Member

USA
2851 Posts

Posted - Aug 14 2017 :  08:48:37  Show Profile Send WonderMan4 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That one (300gr HP. #4500) should be a very good hunting bullet. Never shot 'em, but used a similar bullet for handguns and they performed nicely.

I shoot cast bullets in my 45-70.
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determined451
Advanced Member

988 Posts

Posted - Aug 14 2017 :  11:34:12  Show Profile  Click to see determined451's MSN Messenger address  Send determined451 a Yahoo! Message Send determined451 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would like to shoot some cast, but don't want to set up for molding them

The Second Amendment.. America's Original Homeland Security
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budlight
Advanced Member



USA
1659 Posts

Posted - Aug 15 2017 :  20:46:41  Show Profile Send budlight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by determined451

I would like to shoot some cast, but don't want to set up for molding them



lead bullets in .458 used to be cheap. I bought a box of 1000, 405 grain. They were not gas checks so I experimented with coating the bases with 2000 degree ceramic paint which seemed to work great even exceeding 2200 fps.

I have since started buying Rainier copper plated bullets.

My favorite powder for years has been BLC-2.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1016226330/rainier-leadsafe-bullets-45-caliber-458-diameter-350-grain-plated-flat-nose
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