Reloader's Nest Forum
Reloader's Nest Forum
Home | Profile | Active Topics | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Reloading General
 Load request
 .41 Magnum
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 3

doctor_phil
New Member

17 Posts

Posted - Aug 26 2017 :  20:37:01  Show Profile Send doctor_phil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Looking for a load for general range plinking using a lead bullet.

Bullet:
Missouri Bullet Co.
.41 Trooper - Hi-Tek
.411 Diameter
215 Grain SWC Keith-Style
Brinell 18
For Action Velocities
Hi-Tek 2-Extreme Coating

Firearm:
Smith and Wesson Model 657 with an 8-3/8" barrel

Kosh75287
Advanced Member



USA
796 Posts

Posted - Aug 26 2017 :  21:09:41  Show Profile Send Kosh75287 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Try 7.5/Unique/210 cast. It's not thunderously powerful, but it's serious enough. It should be quite comfortable to shoot. The 7.5/Unique combination seems to work well in .357, .41, and .44 Magnums, as well as in the .45 Colt, when a cast projectile of appropriate weight to the caliber is used. In .357, this load is at or approaching max pressure when a 158gr. cast projectile is used.

God bless Jeff Cooper

Carpe SCOTCH!

Edited by - Kosh75287 on Aug 26 2017 21:23:13
Go to Top of Page

Onondaga
Advanced Member



USA
4017 Posts

Posted - Aug 27 2017 :  00:19:38  Show Profile Send Onondaga a Private Message  Reply with Quote
doctor_phil

All I shoot is cast. Revolver bullet fit makes a world of difference and so does bullet alloy strength to load level.

The best check for a cast bullet fit to a revolver is to drop a bare bullet in a cylinder. It should not drop through and should take a 1 to 2 pound push with a pencil to push it through. Less or more subtracts from accuracy potential.

The Lee book Modern Reloading 2nd Edition has 2 chapters that thoroughly explain the alloy/load relation and how to get it right. The Lee recommendations are for plain base cast bullets and gas checked bullets gain 10% in usable load pressure.

A bullet too hard or even too soft for the load and fitting poorly generally shoots all over the place.

By Lee's chart, BHN 17.9 is closest to what you have and plain based cast bullets that hard need a minimum of 22,852 psi load pressure to begin obduration or bumping up to fit and are usable to 25,391 psi. If your bullets fit and you shoot in that load range you can do excellently.

I recommend you check bullet fit with a pencil or dowel as I explained first. If your cast bullets don't fit that well, don't bother with them. They will be a disappointing struggle.

Gary

Fine rifles are never really owned.

Edited by - Onondaga on Aug 27 2017 00:46:54
Go to Top of Page

Onondaga
Advanced Member



USA
4017 Posts

Posted - Aug 27 2017 :  06:28:10  Show Profile Send Onondaga a Private Message  Reply with Quote
doctor_phil

Page 267 Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition 41 Rem. Mag. loads listed show closest weight to your bullet as a 220 gr bevel base SWC in #2 alloy. Definitely safe loads for your 215 gr SWCs instead of a 220. The powder with the lowest pressure for the highest velocity is best for cast bullets and that is listed as:

START 15.2 gr Acc.#9 1,117 fps 26,400 CUP MAXIMUM 17.0 gr 1,307 fps 38,700 CUP

Other recommended powders and their loads for that cast bullet weight are with Unique, 2400, IMR4227, and H110. If you prefer one of those, I'll list the load for you, but their higher start pressures are usually less accurate with cast bullets. It is also true that the START loads recommended by Lyman are usually the most accurate for the powder recommended.

Gary

Fine rifles are never really owned.

Edited by - Onondaga on Aug 27 2017 06:47:32
Go to Top of Page

Paul B
Advanced Member

3969 Posts

Posted - Aug 27 2017 :  13:42:03  Show Profile Send Paul B a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"I recommend you check bullet fit with a pencil or dowel as I explained first. If your cast bullets don't fit that well, don't bother with them. They will be a disappointing struggle."

I concur with one addition. Check each cylinder hole. There may be some variation, then size the bullets to cover the worst case scenario. If one or more holes are too small, see a competent gunsmith to properly hone them out to where they match up. I've had to do that on two guns so far. Holes were smaller than the bore diameter.
Paul B.
Go to Top of Page

Kosh75287
Advanced Member



USA
796 Posts

Posted - Aug 27 2017 :  15:29:59  Show Profile Send Kosh75287 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Found another one: 6.0/WW231/220 gr. cast. I don't think this load is as "universal" as the one I mentioned previously, though it might be. It looks like it gives about 850 f/s at the muzzle. Again, not thunderous, but still very serious. it is fully the equivalent of .45 ACP ball.

+1 Concerning Onandaga's recommendations.

God bless Jeff Cooper

Carpe SCOTCH!
Go to Top of Page

Hockeynick39
Advanced Member



USA
4690 Posts

Posted - Aug 27 2017 :  17:17:06  Show Profile  Send Hockeynick39 an AOL message Send Hockeynick39 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Try some of these:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?276144-41-Magnum-41-Special-Load-Data-Center/page24

I do have a .41 Remington Magnum, actully two. One is a Ruger Super Blackhawk Bisley Hunter with a 7 1/2 inch barrel. The other is a S&W Model 57, Highway Trooper with 4 inch barrel. The Model 57 I have been playing around with for a while and have settled on 9.9 gr Unique for the 240 gr LHPs @ 1.690" OAL and 8.5 gr Unique for the 220 gr. LSWC @ 1.570" OAL. Hope this helps some. Good luck and stay safe!
Go to Top of Page

doctor_phil
New Member

17 Posts

Posted - Aug 28 2017 :  21:16:02  Show Profile Send doctor_phil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Guys - Thanks so much for the great replies. I'm relatively new to reloading and the advice is highly appreciated.

I did the drop test and the bullet stopped at the same place in each chamber, but would require way more than 1-2 lbs of force to push through. Not sure what effect it will have.

I have a pound of Unique, so I'm going down that road. Should 7.5 grains be my starting point? If so, what's the velocity window? I have a pretty decent chronograph.

I read the two chapters in the Lee book on cast bullets too. I really liked his analogy of when chamber pressure exceeds the compressive strength of the bullet as "using an over-ripe, peeled banana as a stopper for a fire hose".

Also, what's a good rule of thumb for crimping cases with lead bullets for revolvers? Crimping jacketed bullets is pretty straight forward and I've had good results using Lee Factory Crimp Dies adjusted to the point where the case doesn't dig into the bullet, yet stays seated through recoil. I'm guessing lead bullets need less crimp?
Go to Top of Page

Onondaga
Advanced Member



USA
4017 Posts

Posted - Aug 29 2017 :  05:15:58  Show Profile Send Onondaga a Private Message  Reply with Quote
doctor_phil you said,

"I did the drop test and the bullet stopped at the same place in each chamber, but would require way more than 1-2 lbs of force to push through. Not sure what effect it will have."

Your tight fit on the push through test dramatically effects recoil and effects accuracy because of that. But if your loaded ammo chambers easily enough, try it that way. Also, your BHN18 alloy magnifies the push force problem you encountered. The largest size bullet that will chamber is a good start regardless of the push force needed to get one through. Your hard alloy may be the only problem causing the need for a harder push in your test.

"Also, what's a good rule of thumb for crimping cases with lead bullets for revolvers? Crimping jacketed bullets is pretty straight forward and I've had good results using Lee Factory Crimp Dies..."

Measure your sized brass outside diameter at the case mouth. Set your FCD to reduce the case mouth diameter .003 for a light crimp to .005" smaller than case mouth diameter for a heavy crimp. This is valid for collet crimps and taper crimps. This is invalid for roll crimps as there is no way to measure them. I don't know which you have. My advise on roll crimps is to make them look like factory ammo roll crimps the best you can and never chamfer off more than 1/4 wall thickness at the case mouth-that messes with crimp hold. Just break the edge if you have to. You should be using a case mouth expander before seating cast bullets also, so bullets aren't scraped during seating. I set The Lee case mouth expander for all my cast ammo to expand the case mouth .004" larger than sized brass case mouth outside diameter. I have never needed more to prevent scraping of cast bullets on seating. More only work hardens brass needlessly and shortens case life.

Gary

Fine rifles are never really owned.

Edited by - Onondaga on Aug 29 2017 05:22:47
Go to Top of Page

Kosh75287
Advanced Member



USA
796 Posts

Posted - Aug 29 2017 :  09:34:05  Show Profile Send Kosh75287 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'll bet your S&W M57 is a joy to shoot, with middlin'-fast ammo! I STILL want to smack myself for passing over a police department trade-in S&W M58, 25 years ago. The revolver was pricey, especially for a trade-in, and I couldn't justify adding another caliber to my list. I shoulda just bought it and sent it to Hamilton Bowen later, to let him convert it to .45 Colt, .45 ACP, or both.

NICK, have you chronographed the 8.5/Unique/220 load? I got the impression (perhaps mistakenly) from the OP that he was looking for data giving him velocities in the 800-900 f/s range. In a Ruger Blackhawk or S&W N-frame, I expect that loads developing velocities in that range will be quite comfortable to shoot, without proving to be anemic.

God bless Jeff Cooper

Carpe SCOTCH!

Edited by - Kosh75287 on Aug 31 2017 04:13:55
Go to Top of Page

Kosh75287
Advanced Member



USA
796 Posts

Posted - Aug 29 2017 :  09:42:14  Show Profile Send Kosh75287 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Double Post. Sorry.

God bless Jeff Cooper

Carpe SCOTCH!

Edited by - Kosh75287 on Aug 31 2017 04:12:37
Go to Top of Page

doctor_phil
New Member

17 Posts

Posted - Aug 30 2017 :  20:48:53  Show Profile Send doctor_phil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I really love the gun. It's a stainless 657 no-dash 8-3/8" barrel in perfect condition. I find that it bridges the gap between .357 and .44 very nicely. A bit of a unicorn caliber to find brass for, but I've accumulated around 300 pieces, which is good for my needs.

So I'm thinking I'll use 7.5 grains of Unique as a start load and work up to a max of 8.5 and see how tight I can get the groups.
Go to Top of Page

Onondaga
Advanced Member



USA
4017 Posts

Posted - Aug 30 2017 :  22:11:04  Show Profile Send Onondaga a Private Message  Reply with Quote
doctor_phil

Still, watch for a bargain on Accurate #9 that I recommended, it is so much slower and bulkier than unique and the softer start with lower pressure can make a big accuracy difference with cast bullets. It deforms them less and gives a wider range of charges that are accurate.

Gary

Fine rifles are never really owned.
Go to Top of Page

Kosh75287
Advanced Member



USA
796 Posts

Posted - Aug 31 2017 :  11:09:24  Show Profile Send Kosh75287 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You can probably launch 220gr. cast projectiles over 1150 f/s using maximum charges of Unique but, at some point, you'll want a slower-burning powder. I've never used AA#9, but I'm told it's a superb powder for getting max performance from the magnum cartridges, and the T-C/Ruger only loads for .45 Colt.
I'M partial to Alliant 2400 for that application, but AA#9 may get you some extra velocity that 2400 won't. When I shoot hot 250gr. loads in my .45 Colt RedHawk, I routinely strain my shooting hand before the revolver shows any signs of wanting to quit.

I hope you'll report your results with the 7.5/Unique/215 load. It's a bit under the starting charge weight that Alliant recommends, but it looks like they were trying for magnum-like performance with jacketed projectiles. Since you plan to use cast projectiles for subsonic velocities, neither of their constraints are a factor. If you work up to 8.5/Unique/215, I suspect you'll be trans-sonic in short order. It needn't be considered a draw-back, but it will add to the noise and concussion when shooting, which never works in MY favor. In an 8&3/8" barrel, it might be far less an issue than with shorter tubes.

God bless Jeff Cooper

Carpe SCOTCH!

Edited by - Kosh75287 on Aug 31 2017 11:21:41
Go to Top of Page

doctor_phil
New Member

17 Posts

Posted - Aug 31 2017 :  18:43:01  Show Profile Send doctor_phil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Definitely gonna pick up some Accurate #9.
Go to Top of Page

Onondaga
Advanced Member



USA
4017 Posts

Posted - Aug 31 2017 :  19:33:43  Show Profile Send Onondaga a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by doctor_phil

Should I use regular LP primers, or LP Magnums?



Lyman specifies Winchester WLP Large pistol primers on the load I recommended with AA #9. Using Magnum primers when standard primers are listed is no benefit and can be a serious safety risk that pushes the bullet down the bore partially and fails to light the charge. The Lyman recommendation is based on good ignition safety first.

Always use the recommended primers from reliable load data from powder makers first when available. Lyman is also a safe and well accepted load data source.

I checked the Accurate reloaders 2005 guide for you and Accurate recommends CCI300 primers for all their 41 Rem Mag loads on page 19. Also their AA #9 loads have the fastest velocity in the caliber. Accurate recommends their following powders for 41 Rem Mag: AA #s 2,5,7,9 and 5744. AA #9 velocity outperforms all of their other recommendations by hundreds of feet per second.

Gary

Fine rifles are never really owned.

Edited by - Onondaga on Aug 31 2017 19:50:45
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 3 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Reloader's Nest Forum © 2016 ReloadersNest Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.17 seconds. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.06