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 Are LRM primers req'd. w/.308 Win & Varget loads?
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Kosh75287
Advanced Member



USA
809 Posts

Posted - Oct 08 2017 :  15:02:02  Show Profile Send Kosh75287 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I was reviewing some suggested load data for .308Winchester, with an eye toward using it in my M1A. I ran across a load consisting of 44.1/Varget/155gr.Lapua Scenar. The shooter who posted it used Federal 210M primers in it.He provided no information on his decision to use Magnum primers, so for all I know, they may have been the only primers he had, at the time of his work-up.

I AM familiar with the notion that certain ball powders (Win. 748 & 760) seem to burn better when magnum rifle primers are used, but I've never heard that said of Varget. I can see that Varget is on the slower-burning end of the powder spectrum that is appropriate for use in (what is essentially) the Garand-pattern rifles, but even so, I wonder about the necessity of magnum primers.

Input from Varget users, please?

God bless Jeff Cooper

Carpe SCOTCH!

southdakbearfan
Senior Member



USA
372 Posts

Posted - Oct 08 2017 :  15:16:20  Show Profile Send southdakbearfan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The only thing I have used Varget in is for the 22-250, but haven't had any issues with ignition in the severe cold when coyote hunting in winter. My go to is Winchester primers for almost everything but I have used most brands. The only ones I really notice a difference with is CCI's in being noticeably hotter between the magnums and standards.

I typically will only use magnums when loading for my magnum calibers (over 60 grains of powder) with large case capacity or with some certain powders, like IMR4895 that I have had issue with when hunting in the severe cold (below 0).
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Kosh75287
Advanced Member



USA
809 Posts

Posted - Oct 08 2017 :  15:52:43  Show Profile Send Kosh75287 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks, BearFan!

Like you, I've used almost every brand of primer at one time or another, but tend to gravitate toward Winchester brand for everything. I didn't think about using Mag. primers with IMR-4895 in sub-zero temps. I'll file that away for future reference. If I'm EVER caught in the outdoors ANYWHERE with a rifle in sub-zero temperatures, it will almost certainly be a life-or-death matter, and I'll want my ammo to go "BANG" with greatest certainty.

I am hopeful that I will et some input from serious .308 shooters/Varget users/both, to see if something advantageous is gained by using LRM primers in their reloads. Since the charge weights and case capacity are on the lower end of the spectrum, I wouldn't EXPECT there to be much to gain, but I could be missing something.

God bless Jeff Cooper

Carpe SCOTCH!
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Paul B
Advanced Member

3980 Posts

Posted - Oct 08 2017 :  16:31:59  Show Profile Send Paul B a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not to hijack the thread but a friend of mine who is an ultra serious reloader was doing his load work ups at the range. He ran out of his magnum primers so sent his wife into town to get some more. She came back with standard primers. Rather than call it a day he loaded up some with the standard primers and got some of the tightest groups his 7MM Rem. Mag. ever put out.

My point being, possibly the shooter tried both and the mag primers gave the best results. You never know unless you try it.

Paul B.

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Zero333
Advanced Member



Canada
826 Posts

Posted - Oct 08 2017 :  16:47:55  Show Profile Send Zero333 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No harm is trying Mag primers.

I've tested 210m, cciBR2, and 215m at the same time in a 308win load consisting of 208amax, 41.3gr Varget in Lapua brass. Unfortunately I did not chrono the results, but the 215m primers shot no different than 210m, while the BR2 primers shot the best.

Also tested 210m and 215m side by side in a 300winmag load consisting of 178amax, 72.5gr H-4831 in FGMM (F.C) brass, and the chronograph showed the 215m primers averaged 3 fps higher than the 210m and both shot to the same point of impact and accuracy was identical.
So for this load I use the 210m in the warmer weather and the 215m in the winter.

Another primer test I did in a 300winmag 208eldm, 79gr Retumbo with 215m and cci250 primers.
The cci250 primers averaged 35 fps more velocity and showed no signs of pressure while the 215m shot groups half the size of the cci250 but got the odd sign of pressure with a barely noticeable stiffer bolt lift.

I've done other primer tests that confirmed mag primers and WinLR primers made smaller groups in a 308win igniting W-748 ball powder.


Treat that trigger like it’s your first date, not like you’ve been married to it for 20 years.

Edited by - Zero333 on Oct 08 2017 16:55:32
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Kosh75287
Advanced Member



USA
809 Posts

Posted - Oct 08 2017 :  17:07:37  Show Profile Send Kosh75287 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
My point being, possibly the shooter tried both and the mag primers gave the best results. You never know unless you try it.
It probably DOES come down to something very much like that. It seems counter-intuitive to me, since I would expect the magnum primer to push the bullet out of the case mouth slightly faster than the standard prime, giving rise to less consistent propellant burn, but maybe this isn't much of a factor above a certain case capacity.

God bless Jeff Cooper

Carpe SCOTCH!
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Charlie-NY
Average Member

152 Posts

Posted - Oct 08 2017 :  20:31:13  Show Profile Send Charlie-NY a Private Message  Reply with Quote
FWIW - The Federal 210M primer is NOT a magnum primer. The 210M is a LR "Match" primer.
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Kosh75287
Advanced Member



USA
809 Posts

Posted - Oct 08 2017 :  22:08:10  Show Profile Send Kosh75287 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
<egg on face> Thanks, Charlie. (DAMN, I feel dumb, now...)

God bless Jeff Cooper

Carpe SCOTCH!

Edited by - Kosh75287 on Oct 09 2017 01:43:48
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Onondaga
Advanced Member



USA
4041 Posts

Posted - Oct 08 2017 :  23:06:17  Show Profile Send Onondaga a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kosh75287

The 210M primer recommended by Hodgdon for 155 gr bullets and H Varget in .308 Winchester IS NOT A MAGNUM PRIMER. the "M" stands for "MATCH" as stated by the primer maker, Federal.

You misinterpreted the the name of the primer, the 210M is not a magnum primer, it is a match primer. Cut and pasted from Hodgdon data:


Case: Winchester
Twist: 1:12"
Primer: Federal 210M, Large Rifle Match
Barrel Length: 24"
Trim Length: 2.005"


Gary

Fine rifles are never really owned.

Edited by - Onondaga on Oct 08 2017 23:09:48
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Kosh75287
Advanced Member



USA
809 Posts

Posted - Oct 09 2017 :  01:46:59  Show Profile Send Kosh75287 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Onandaga. Can't believe I had a brain-fart and made an inductive leap like that. <shaking head>

God bless Jeff Cooper

Carpe SCOTCH!
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