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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Sep 12 2010 :  03:36:47  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
When I made the 16ga FH, shown earlier in this thread,
I had couple bmg cases that were partly worked down, and not
yet expanded to 16ga mouth size. With a rim on it bigger than the
base which was .770". Well, I've had guys ask if I would ever
have bottlenecked cartridge. This led me to a way to do one.
I made rim .770, left shoulder diameter, swage case sides straight,
and expanded neck for 585" size. Cut the case to 3.7" length, and
we have 585 Hubel Super Magnum, HSM. This will be my only
bottle necked wildcat. I can make the mag box on the MRC PH
long to feed case..Good for over 16,000 ft lbs, Regular 14,000 ft lbs.
Will that put trex in small letters.....Pictured with 505 Gibbs to which
it has nearly identical larger shape and good side taper for easy
extraction, with heavy loads.And I can make cases like I do with
my 700HE.Case hold 250gr ball powder under bullet.
It'll work in FBW Model L..ED


Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Sep 17 2010 :  03:03:13  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Shot 4 ga plastic case with 7- 140 gr balls, 980gr total
1800 fps. Used duplex load- Blue Dot 100gr, - Re17 150gr.
A card and couple nitro wads under load and card over, glue gunned
the card in. Shot loadedin two rows of 3 and 7th on bottom
in recess in the middle of top wad. Red plastic case ok some
expansion. Just about the limit for an all plastic case.

Here is picture 0f 585HSM and some other cases.
Gonna test a few in trusty ole Enfield I shot
the 700H 3.25 in with extra rear lugs. Change barrel
lengthen port.It won't do maximum real hotrod
loads like when I put it in PH later, but it'll
outrun trex.2nd pic... ED




Ed Hubel
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Evad
Advanced Member



USA
1346 Posts

Posted - Sep 17 2010 :  22:48:22  Show Profile Send Evad a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How are plastic cases standing up to 250 grains of powder? You would think it would melt!
Dave

I never met a gun I didn't like.
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jdmorris
Advanced Member

USA
1143 Posts

Posted - Sep 17 2010 :  23:45:03  Show Profile Send jdmorris a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just when I think that I am a real man shooting my .458 winchester magnum you keep posting these enormous rifles and bring me back to
my senses. That is pretty cool. Do you have any plans of hunting with any of your wildcats for anything big?

Jim
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Oct 05 2010 :  22:28:32  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The slower powders we use keep pressures and temperatures
down to factory magnum levels so the plastic does ok.
Other factory plastic case work, they just have
a basecup. Like the 8ga kiln cases can take pressures and
heat as good as many styles of thinner brass cases.

In the 4ga plastic case a 760 gr ball at 2000 fps
extracted ok. 3oz #2 shot load at 1500 ok.
More 8ga stuff, fired a 2 ball, 820gr load at 1600
with all the RE17 it had room for. We fired 1300
gr cast full bore 8ga hard slug at 1700. Found a
guy who can do them. Here is picture of his 10
and 8ga cast fullbore hard slugs. 2nd picture is the
585 HSM case sectioned with a competition case
showing how strong brass is.Ed




Ed Hubel

Edited by - hubel458 on Oct 05 2010 22:32:21
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Oct 09 2010 :  10:58:26  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The 4ga all plastic case good for 4 of my magnum
pressure loads, with our slower powders,before
it is expanded to much.
Compared to the brass cases, at 50% more pressure,
I've fired one 6 times and sized, and fired it 4 more.ED

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Oct 15 2010 :  12:42:11  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
We found some 585 hardcast, sized and lubed bullets.
Works ok in my 585s at high speed. Shown in picture.

We showed 10ga slugs above, Another easy to do
10ga slug load is the 10ga wadcups for lead BPI has,
with a 69cal swaged lead bullet in it that Dixie sells.
It is hollowbased and 750gr.You can also cast .69-.70
lead slugs for wadcup use. Also use the same wadcup
for buckshot. Some are showing interest in 10ga
due to NEF making them with heavy bull barrels.
Another experimenter has got a bunch
of RMC 3.5" brass 10ga cases, and will load and test
the fullbore 10ga slugs shown above. RMC can do
them about any time you want.Ed

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Oct 25 2010 :  22:34:15  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here is picture of the 3.5" 20ga brass case in
FBW falling block. Nice cases by RMC.Shotgun primer.
Using 395 gr sabot get over 2700 fps. 600gr
over 2200. Cases take many reloads with
minimum sizing. One fired 8 times, still good
and the slower powders get the velocity
without the hard shock to cases, compared to
fast shotgun powders. And the hotrod Hastings
factory loads work in the gun also.

Guy got new design 8 and 10 ga slugs with
bigger hollow in the base. 1100gr for 8 and
900gr for 10. More accurate in smooth bores.
Will let everyone know when he is ready to
make a few for shooters.Ed


Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Nov 04 2010 :  11:30:29  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like singleshot break actions. I found another brand that will work
to make heavy barrel 12 and 20 ga FH. By monoblocking in heavy
barrels. It is the CBC Model SB. It has stock mounted like more
expensive doubles and O/U. And nice shaped pistol grip stock.
They have the nice stylish look like the Win 37 and Stevens 94.
But they are heavier built, just need heavy barrel.
I going to do a couple by monoblocking in heavy barrels, one 20ga
and one my 585 HE like I did in the NEF.And they are 50 to 100 bucks.

That action is a 1/8 inch wider than NEF, has big breach diameter
like NEF 10/12 gauges. The bearing surfaces on the pivot is .300"
wider, and pivot block is 1/4" wider. Pivot pin is 1/10" bigger.
The action is a 1/2 inch taller, and extra diameter at breach end.
In fact you could build a real hairy 8ga on its wider action, with
a heavy barrel and a new pivot block welded on.Ed

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Nov 07 2010 :  00:34:50  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
More info on doing 20ga 3.5" in break actions. Nice
to do them in falling blocks, but they aren't available
for decent price. One choice, heavy barrel NEF 20ga,
lengthen chamber, but barrels are too short for proper
burning of large loads. Longer barrel better and helps
with recoil. And in a break action looks better to me.
Brass cases from RMC 7 bucks, decent price compared to
600NE brass at twice that. Many guys want 20s along with
the bigger. So you put a heavy barrel in a gun like the CBC
which is low cost and put extra toward the barrel.
Which is why I started research after getting a CBC,
as it is about perfect for the 20ga added heavy barrel.
Or in NEF, a little more. Or other singles, if heavy enough.
And you still fire factory 3-3.5" slug loads. And 3.5" brass
20ga will do same as 600NE factory loads, in a gun at
1/20 the price. That is reason we are looking at monoblocking
20ga barrels to make heavy strong guns, that can
get great velocities, less cost.. Like 600gr to 2200 or more.
Added heavy barrels in right actions will hold all the
pressure the RMC brass operates at. And remember one
experimenter has 20ga kills at 160 and 230 yds on deer.ED

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Nov 12 2010 :  05:05:03  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
More info on 10 and 8 gauge slugs. The guy got some
made with deep hollowbase, 10ga 900gr, 8ga 1100gr.
He will make them for a buck each.
Bob Bigando in AZ. (bobiano at yahoo.com)
Good price as they are nice hard shiny slugs.
For seals for 10 and 8 gauge you can get regular
card seals and nitro fiber wads, but plastic seals
will do better, about a 100 fps in the faster loads.
Plastic seals for 10 ga are at BPI, called - X10X.
For 8ga I cut bottom seal part off of the 8ga wadcup
that BPI has. For extended accuracy in smooth bores
you can screw the seals on to the slugs and that
will make the overall projectile more front heavy.
Or better yet screw nitro fiber wads to the slug,
like the Brenekkes are. Good smoothbore accuracy
Use slugs with seals on, with slower RE17 that fills
case so no fiber wads are need.Just seal and slug.ED


Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Nov 29 2010 :  04:06:16  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I talked about these 12ga jacketed full bore slugs earlier,
shown below. Well now BPI has something similiar in
their new catalog. We have tested some and one guy
got a 3 shot group that is nearly touching at 50 yds
in a scoped NEF Ultra slug gun. They can go real fast in
our 3.5 RMC or our real long case.They are hollowpoint
and fairly streamlined.I fill them with plastic glue for
better streamlining.Fullbore and no sabots needed.
Relatively light weight, to lessen recoil.Ed


Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Dec 16 2010 :  04:13:06  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The 12ga Brenekke slugs with locked on base and the USS-S
slugs I test have led to other combinations that I've put
together using different slugs and wads. The object is
60 yd accurate, economical slugs for reloading smoothbores
that in the reloading process we can get more power also.
Like the Lyman cast slugs in thickwall 10ga steel wads,
with the slug glued in and wad cut off even with top of slug.
Then with wad cut even, you load and can rollcrimp perfect.
It makes a real nose heavy combination that is as accurate
in smoothbores, as the expensive 10ga foster style slugs.
Another one is the hollowbase 577 soft lead slugs that Dixie
sells, I put in a thickwall 16ga wad that BPI has. I glue it in
using Goop, a thick glue that hardwares sell. Epoxy works.
Another one is 20ga ga thickwall wad with 54 cal hollowbase
soft lead slugs. All these and others can be loaded for a fifth of
factory for smoothbores, and be as accurate as foster slugs.
And our slow powder loads seal good with wadcups.
Representative one in middlle, 10ga.Slug glued in tight.Ed


Ed Hubel
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keeki
Average Member

173 Posts

Posted - Dec 16 2010 :  21:31:30  Show Profile Send keeki a Private Message  Reply with Quote
can you neck that down to 25 cal? lol
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Dec 27 2010 :  05:19:03  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Could neck down my 585 case to 25cal, bit overbore.
Some wonder if only trying for foster slug accuracy at 200 feet
or 60-70 yds wasn't the best goal in a smooth bore, But if you get it
at 20% of the cost you've made a big gain. And most deer here are
killed at 30 yards. And putting slugs inside of thickwall wadcups,
with corresponding nitro wads under slug to get slug to the front
of cup, slug glued in, makes them long and a little more accurate than
foster slugs. Reason is the forcing cone in smoothbores. With the
long nose, heavy combination of wadcup/slug, the back of the
wadcup is in case yet while the front gets into the bore, past the
forcing cone, for a straight start. Little better accuracy. Like the
accurate US-S smoothbore locked on base slug, that is long.
The longer the nose heavy slug/sabot combo is, the truer it flies.
And most of these combinations work in brass cases with
thick walls like RMC cases. They fit real tight for my cases. Ed

Ed Hubel
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