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steve4102
Advanced Member

USA
932 Posts

Posted - Feb 04 2004 :  02:32:45  Show Profile Send steve4102 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What do you guys think about R-19 for my 7MM-08. I am going to be loading 140gr Nosler Partitions. R-19 was recomended to me by my supply store. Just thought I would check in before I loaded to many rounds.
Thanks

BlueMoon
Average Member

USA
162 Posts

Posted - Feb 04 2004 :  04:30:49  Show Profile Send BlueMoon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just my 2cents, but I would recommend RL-15, IMR4064,or Varget. BM
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ricciardelli
Advanced Member



USA
1581 Posts

Posted - Feb 04 2004 :  07:52:17  Show Profile  Visit ricciardelli's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Varget From 33.1 grains to 44.6 grains
Remington 9-1/2 Primer

http://stevespages.com/page8c.htm
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R-WEST
New Member

USA
29 Posts

Posted - Feb 04 2004 :  20:18:32  Show Profile Send R-WEST a Private Message  Reply with Quote
With 139/140's:
In first place by a mile in more than a few 7-08's I've worked with is IMR or AA 4064 (somewhere around 42.5 - 43 grains generally, BUT START A FEW GRAINS LOWER).

H414/W760
RL15
IMR or H4895
H380

I could never get enough of my particular lot of RL19 in there to get decent velocities, although accuracy was okay.

I've seen plenty of Varget advocates for the 7-08, but my lot must be goofy or something, 'cause it only generates angst.

R-WEST


"the spotlight of truth will cause the cockroaches of deceit to run for cover every time" Rush Limbaugh

"just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't following you"
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Mr Bill
Average Member

USA
192 Posts

Posted - Feb 05 2004 :  07:14:19  Show Profile Send Mr Bill a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've been loading 7-08 longer than any other I load. My 7-08 has a 20" barrel. RL19 didn't perform well in my rifle.
I've settled on W760 although, H414 is about the same. It's a toss of the coin between the two.
I found IMR4064 produced the best accuracy but its long grains don't drop well from my Dillon press, bridged to often. If it weren't for that I would've stayed with the 4064.
I didn't like H-380, seemed to have a sharper recoil and if you spill it, it's like mercury.
I haven't tried Varget nor W748 yet though I've been considering trying the later and RL15.
The 4350's work well too.
Bill
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R-WEST
New Member

USA
29 Posts

Posted - Feb 05 2004 :  23:38:02  Show Profile Send R-WEST a Private Message  Reply with Quote
if you spill it, it's like mercury
You got that right. Teeny little ball bearings running all over the place. But, it DOES flow through the powder measure though, don't it? Probably work good for leveling up a counter top or something, I'll bet :)

Mr Bill - Have you ever tried Accurate's 4064? Shorter grains and much easier metering than IMR, with just about identical performance. Love it in my 7-08's and 308's.

Sorry, steve, didn't mean to hijack your thread :)

R-WEST


"the spotlight of truth will cause the cockroaches of deceit to run for cover every time" Rush Limbaugh

"just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't following you"
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steve4102
Advanced Member

USA
932 Posts

Posted - Feb 05 2004 :  23:45:28  Show Profile Send steve4102 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No problem R-West, I was wondering if AA 4064 would meter better, and you answered that for me. Thanks
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Mr Bill
Average Member

USA
192 Posts

Posted - Feb 06 2004 :  23:23:43  Show Profile Send Mr Bill a Private Message  Reply with Quote
R-West, I see you've done it with H380 too. Yeah, it did meter well but it always got all over the place.
No I haven't tried the AA 4064. I haven't tried any AA powders before, although, I've been considering trying their 8700 when my supply of H870 runs out.
I've been wanting to try something new, i.e. 748 and RL15, and this may be a better choice. What brand and grain bullet do you load in your 7-08 and where did you get your load data for it? What did you get for chrono readings with your best load? I'm not into seeing how fast I can get but more interested in tight consistant patterns which I found usually occurs in the 2650 to 2750 fps range.
I've settled in on Rem 140gr PSPCL's and Speer 145 GS's for mine. I still have some Nosler 140 BT's, but won't hunt anything larger than a 'yote with them, they're to frangible for my liking. I have the older ones and have heard they increased the jacketing thickness but, I'm still not interested in them anymore.
Now you got my curiousity up on how AA 4064 would perform in my Win 100 .284 Win. with 140-145's. Hmmm? I've been loading it with 154gr SP's and H4350.
By the way, what does "angst" mean?
Thanks.
Bill

p.s. Accurate Reloading sight has an intersting thread on 120 and 130gr bullets for the 7-08 if anyone's interested.
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Lucky
Starting Member



USA
3 Posts

Posted - Feb 08 2004 :  00:55:27  Show Profile Send Lucky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I bought my Model 7 7mm/08 in 1989 and started using W760, then one day tried IMR 4064 and never went back. My load is 42 grs of IMR 4064 with the Hornady 139 BTSP. On my better shooting days I can get .75" groups @ 100yds. It's a great round and a great little rifle for all around deer hunting.
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mpmccollum
Starting Member

USA
7 Posts

Posted - Feb 11 2004 :  06:23:09  Show Profile Send mpmccollum a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have a model 7 Rem in 7mm08 and have had success with IMR4350 in terms of accuracy and Varget in terms of the better velocities all behind 140 Nosler BTips. I have had the gun since the late 80's and use it a bunch for still hunting in the woods.

quote:
Originally posted by steve4102

What do you guys think about R-19 for my 7MM-08. I am going to be loading 140gr Nosler Partitions. R-19 was recomended to me by my supply store. Just thought I would check in before I loaded to many rounds.
Thanks



Mike
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R-WEST
New Member

USA
29 Posts

Posted - Feb 12 2004 :  00:19:27  Show Profile Send R-WEST a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What brand and grain bullet do you load in your 7-08 and where did you get your load data for it? What did you get for chrono readings with your best load?
Whoa!! I'm gonna' have to start checking back a little more often when I post!

Okay, I currently have three 7-08's, a W'by U-lite w/24" barrel, a M700 LSS with 22" barrel and a 20" M7. I've worked with three others, an M70 Fwt and 2 other M700's. The mind's a little blurry on details about the 3 that I no longer have (other than the fact that they liked 4064 with light'ish bullets, too), so, we'll concentrate on the ones I DO still have.

The 139 Spire Point Flat Base and 140 Sierra Pro-Hunter are preferred by the LSS; the M7 likes 140 Combined Technology B-Tips; and the U-Lite despises anything that doesn't have a boattail, so all I've tried in it are 139 SST's, BTSP's and 140 B-Tips, both standard Nosler and Combined Tech versions. Having three of the same caliber which have such different preferrences really points up the need for detailed record keeping, to say nothing of being sure the cases are properly segregated.

My load data comes from standard sources, like Mr. Ricciardelli's pages (first place I always look) and published data from powder and/or bullet mfrs.

I've noticed that either AA4064 or IMR 4064 (my current lots of which are interchangeable vis-a-vis charge weights in these rifles as well as my 308's, BUT MAY NOT BE FOR LOTS THAT ANYBODY ELSE IS USING, so be careful) seems to be a fraction slower than the current lot of R15 (ie., 41 R15 gives the same velocity as 41.5/4064), but the 4064's have always produced better accuracy, and, the coated Combined Tech bullets will generally take a grain or so more powder to equal the velocity produced by the uncoated B-Tips. Also, the greater length of the B-Tip (as compared to the Pro-Hunter and 139 Flat Base Spire Point, for instance) results in its being seated more deeply to fit into the magazine and/or chamber, which again requires weight-of-powder adjustments. To kinda' wrap all this up, where I might get away with 43 grains 4064 and the 139 FB Spire Point, I find the same results, velocity-wise with 41.7 and the 140 B-Tip, or 42.5 with the Combined Tech version. NOTE THAT I AM NOT RECOMMENDING THESE LOADS TO START - REDUCE BY A FEW GRAINS AND WORK FROM THERE

The 700LSS with 140 PH's shoots best at 2,875 - 2,900 FPS (43 A4064, Fed GM Match brass, F210M or GM210M primer, 140 Sierra PH @ 2.805");
the U'lite, on the other hand, will do cloverleafs with 139 BTSP's at 2,750 FPS (41.5 A or I4064, W-W brass, GM210M, 139 Hdy BTSP @ 2.815"), as velocity increases, accuracy deteriorates with the U'lite;
the M7 is a bit of an oddball - it gets fed a reduced load (made it up for the missus, then she decided it was too cold out there to go deer hunting, so, it sits over in the corner, all alone) of 36 H4895 and F210M's in R-P cases with the 140 Combined Tech's at 2.795", for 2,640 FPS and sub 3/4" 3 shotters at 100 yards. That load is actually pretty deadly on whitetails, as proven by a few youngsters who've used the rifle over the years. Minimal blast and recoil leads to accurate shooting and all that. Another grain of 4064 produces the same results, but, I had more H4895 at the time, so that's what I settled on.

I've been attempting to run a test series with a new canister of W760 and 139/140's in the U'lite, but, about 6' of snow on my range has slowed that down, for now. Initial tests indicate some promise with the 139/140's, and, W760/H414 has historically been one of the best with 145/150/154's in the 7-08, so, that one MAY dethrone the 4064's. We'll see.

With the myriad of 140 bullets available (got some Triple X's for Christmas, and am waiting for new/old 140 SB's to come in at ShootersProShop, to further complicate things), multiplied by 3 different rifles, and, a bunch of other rifles/calibers to play with, obviously it's impossible to do a thorough test of all of them, but, I keep trying

Now that we've hijacked steve's thread completely, we may as well drive it over a cliff, right!! I see you're working with a 284. The M70 Fwt. I mentioned earlier was rechambered to 284 some years ago. Its preferred load uses H450 and 150 W-W PowerPoints, 154 Hdy Spires and/or 160 Speer Mag-Tips at 2,850 FPS (160's) to 2,900 (150's & 154's), BUT, I did a little work with H380 and 139 Hdy's one time (Hodgdon lists load data for it) with good results, if memory serves. I do know that my 284 is quite picky about primers - either WLR's or CCI 250's (one of only two rifles I've ever seen that liked a CCI non-benchrest primer, BTW) must be used, or I'm just wasting powder and bullets.

Angst = heightened sense of frustration, to me anyway

R-WEST


"the spotlight of truth will cause the cockroaches of deceit to run for cover every time" Rush Limbaugh

"just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't following you"
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Mr Bill
Average Member

USA
192 Posts

Posted - Feb 12 2004 :  07:33:25  Show Profile Send Mr Bill a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Since weíve hijacked this thread might as well run with it.

Six foot snow drifts!!! Brrr. I havenít seen the likes of those since I lived in western NY. I went to the range Monday to check some loads for the latest 30-06, Savage 111c, and reconfirm the sighting on the Win 100 .284 with the 154gr SPs, it was a cool 65 degrees. The weather is about all thatís good here in So Cal. I look forward to moving out of this state.

You sound like me with more guns and cartridges than time to devote to them. My daughter turns 10 this year so Iím still the only center fire shooter in the house.
I have 12 shooting rifles, not including the 22lr's, chambered for 9 different cartridges. I have redundancy in .225 Win and 30-06. Iím selling a couple this year, the 7400sp 30-06 and the Win 100 .284. Iíve gotten the semi-auto bug out of my system. Iíve already replaced the 7400, even though I havenít sold it yet, with the Savage 111 and Iíll be in the market for a bolt action .284 to replace the 100. Unless I can find a factory chambered Browning A-bolt or a Ruger 77 Iíll probably have to get a 7-08 and rechamber it into the .284. I do have many .284 winís but, theyíre either nib or lnib factory chambered investment/collectables. Maybe Iíll get lucky and find another Win 70 DM in .284 thatís a shooter, itís estimated that there were only 200 made as special orders in í94. I prefer a detachable magazines.

It's ironic that your developing loads with W760 and Iím looking to develop loads with a faster powder. Itís a never ending process.

My Browning 7-08 didnít show an affinity toward Hornadyís 139gr bullets, either FB or BT. Back when I was experimenting with the Barnes Xís I didnít know they required a longer freebore, .05 inch, so they never worked for me. I donít see the necessity for such expensive bullets for it so the Grand Slams are as premium as I get in 7mm now. I may try the Deep-Shock sometime out of curiousity.
At first I settled in using Nosler 140 B-Tips for hunting and Sierra 140 SPBTís for practice, both are very accurate with same point of impact but, after the fragmentation experience on a small blacktail Iíve discontinued using them. Between loosing confidence in them and now their being sold 50 per box I'm no longer interested. I had loaded them with 46.0gr of W760 in R-P Nickel brass. After I'd gotten a Pro-Chrono I discovered that load produced 2600 fps from the 20Ē barrel. My very early records show I had developed an accurate load for B-T with 42.0gr of IMR4064. They also were before the chronograph. When I switched to Rem 140 pspcls and 145 GS I worked the load up to 47.7gr W760 averaging approximately 2750fps. I yielded a little accuracy with the change, but not enough to be concerned about. The Remís are under .7 inch and the GSís are no more than 1 inch, 5 shot groups benched. I use WLR primers exclusively for the non-magnums. Iím hoping to increase velocity a little more and or improve the accuracy with a faster powder. Another well kept secret that I learned are the value of Sierra P-H's.

Iíll be getting 1# canisters of XMR4064 and W748 this weekend. If either works better than W760 in either or both the 7-08 and .257R then Iíll order an 8# canister for the long haul. Iím preparing to place an order for four 8# canisters in an assortment of powders to carry me for the next 10 to 20 years. Iím down to about 1.5 to 2#ís of my last 8# canister of W760 (my second in 13 years). It works for all the cartridges I load, be it better in some than others. Once I bring the big cased magnums back on line again the powder will get gobbled up quickly.

I tried 160gr Mag Tips in the .284 but they were a bit much for the Semi-auto, thatís why I switched to the 154gr SPís, with good success. Recently I started thinking of trying 154gr RN in it. I know where there's a limited supply of H-450 available locally but, as with the 4831's I think it would be to slow for the semi-auto 100. I load 160 Mag Tips and 175 M-T and pspcls in 7mm Rem Mag with very good results, push them with H870, very fast and extremely accurate.

I've also been considering trying some pull down powders. Have you ever tried them? Their price is quite affordable.

So many variables to explore.

Bill
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R-WEST
New Member

USA
29 Posts

Posted - Feb 12 2004 :  20:22:11  Show Profile Send R-WEST a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yep, steve's thread is history

In working with a variety of 7-08's, I've noticed quite a wide swing in velocities using the same, or similar, loads in different rifles. For instance, using 48 H4350 with 145 Speer FB's in one 22" barreled M700, it averaged 2,880 FPS, but the 24" barreled U'lite produces only 2,800 FPS with that load ???

47 W760 (old canister) and 145 Speer FB gave 2,780 FPS in the 22" M700, and 2,730 FPS in the M7's 20" barrel, but blows primers in the U'lite.

Since steve's original post concerned 140's, I wrote about my experiences with bullets in that range. My actual hunting loads for the rifles, with the exception of the M7, all use other bullets.

The 700 LSS (just a sweetheart of a rifle, nice/trim, right around 7# all up, with 3-9 Leupold Compact and 3 rounds in the mag) is fed 47 H4350 and 154 Hdy Spires in Fed GM cases with WLR primers @ 2.805". 2,730 FPS and ~1" 3 shot groups, plus, it never changes. That first shot is ALWAYS right about 2" above the bull. I've tried the 145 GS, but just cannot find a combo that shoots like the 154 Spire Pt. I also messed around some with 130 Barnes XBT's in the LSS, but, aside from getting a nice shiny copper bore plating, no luck, even after trying every imaginable seating depth. That same bullet is spoken of glowingly by other 7-08 users, so, maybe it's just me.

A prior 700 (since re-barreled to 358) accounted for a few deer with the aforementioned 48 H4350/145 Speer (Flat Bases, since I had a core slip with a BT on a close range shot - found out later that the BT's are not produced using the "Hot Core" method) load.

I currently am playing with nine different 7's, ranging from a 7TCU (started life as a 223 M7 "Youth Model") to some 7RMags, so, I have a pretty wide variety of 284 projectiles lying around. That's nice, but, it's pretty difficult to take just one rifle and run through every powder/bullet combo. That's almost like work :) Then, looking at the latest Sierra manual, I see some promising loads listed in there using W748, a powder I wouldn't have thought to be a winner in the 7-08, plus, just got a bunch of Norma and V-V powders for Christmas, so, I've gotta' try some of them, too.

You mention H870, which I understand has been discontinued; Accurate's 8700 seems to produce equivalent ballistics, and sure burns a lot cleaner in my 7 Mags (verified by a few other 8700 users, too). H1000 is another great choice with bullets 160 and heavier in the 7 RMag.

There's a lot of good/bad heard about using the milsurp and/or pulldown stuff. As long as you're not one of those "start at max and work up from there" types, or, don't mind checking with the supplier for load data, they can be a very economical way to go, especially if you load a lot. I have quite a bit of the milsurp IMR4895 (my 358 and 9.3x62 love it) and WC846 (similar to H335) from Jeff at GiBrass http://www.gibrass.com/gunpowder.html but have never tried any pulldown. Certain lot #'s of WC872 are prized by the big-bore long range guys, but, the guys at http://longrangehunting.com/ report some pretty big lot to lot variations, which has always been the bugaboo with such powders.

R-WEST



"the spotlight of truth will cause the cockroaches of deceit to run for cover every time" Rush Limbaugh

"just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't following you"
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steve4102
Advanced Member

USA
932 Posts

Posted - Feb 13 2004 :  02:24:31  Show Profile Send steve4102 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi guys, it's me Steve, Just wanted to thank all of you for your replies. I enjoyed reading them all, and I think I learned a great deal. As you stated my "...thread is history..." so how about a different question about the 7MM's. I will also be loading for a 7MM Mag. I will be starting out with 150gr. FailSafe bullets and IMR 4350 powder. As you may have guessed I am new to reloading and any advice would be welcome.

Edited by - steve4102 on Feb 13 2004 02:25:34
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BlueMoon
Average Member

USA
162 Posts

Posted - Feb 13 2004 :  04:22:38  Show Profile Send BlueMoon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Steve, The 7Mag is quite a bit larger case and can use the slower powders better whether it's a Rem mag or WSM. The 4350's and 4831's, W760-H414 work well for lighter bullets but also the RL's 19, 22, MagPro, WXR, MRP, AA3100, 7828 etc. for midrange to heavy bullets. For the ultra 7mag you might look at Retumbo, AA8700, RL-25 etc.

Bill
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Mr Bill
Average Member

USA
192 Posts

Posted - Feb 13 2004 :  04:57:46  Show Profile Send Mr Bill a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I wonder whatís up with that Uílight. Iím guessing itís in the throat or maybe in combination with the headspace.

Your loads are similar to some that Iíve tried and your velocity for the W760 is consistent with mine. My records show I loaded 48gr of IMR4350 with Speer 130 SP. IMR4350 and H380 were the powders I was using when trying Hornady 139 SP and Nosler 150 PJ bullets. That was back in í92 when I first began handloading. That data is from my first 3 pages of my loading log. After page 3 I only loaded the 7-08 with W760 and H414 (only for 1#). I donít have any velocity data from back then (pre-chrono days) and the pattern data wasnít recorded, I use to keep the targets for reference but those targets are long gone now. Because I was just starting to load my record keeping wasnít as refined as it is today. My record keeping along with my loading techniques are also continually being refined.

For the record my Browning Micro A-Bolt has a Leupold 2-7x33 mounted. I purchased it to carry/hunt at elevation in the Sierra Nevada mountains. Back then the M7 was the other option but I wasnít to keen on the 18.5Ē barrel.

I decided to only load the 7-08 with 145gr and lighter bullets. I stepped up to the .284 with itís little larger case capacity for 150gr Ė 160gr bullets, I justified it as my back up to the A-Bolt Micro and also as a back up to the 30-06 for Black Bear. I know, Iím splitting hairs. The 7mm RM is for 160gr and up although, I may try a 154 SP in it just to see. I really havenít justified the 7mm RM (Browning A-Bolt SS w/ 26Ē barrel) to myself but, the price was just to good to pass up. Except for the 7-08, I typically like to load heavy bullets for the cartridge. I can fully understand the advantage of the 154gr bullet for the PA whitetails, then again the 358 is excellent too. Our CA blacktail mulies typically donít get as large as the big whitetails.

I recently priced V-V powders but theyíre more expensive than others. Late last year someone was auctioning 8# canisters of 140 and 150 powders for $100 plus $20 for shipping AND including the haz mat on auctionarms.com. I couldnít decide which to get and then Christmas gifts sucked those funds up. After the new year he upped the price and now I donít see them listed any longer. I suspect the 140 would perform very similar to W760. I probably should get a couple later edition manuals, since I principally use Speer bullets I refer to their #13 manual most frequently. I wonder if anyone has made a flow chart of the different variables theyíve tried. That's an idea I'll keep in mind. As you can tell, Iím at a point of; what should I try next.

Iíve only tried H4831 and H870 in the 7mm RM. I didnít notice the H870 being that dirty, but I donít have much to compare it to. A local store, the one that has the H450, also has about 10 more 1# canisters (same lot) that Iím slowly buying up. Iíve got three now and this weekend when I go for the W748 and XMR4064 Iíll get another. Iíve got a great load with it so I plan on keeping with it as long as possible.

Iíve never been one keen on loading hot, more concerned with conserving supplies and accuracy. I was wondering if something like WC860 or WC872 would be a more economical alternative to H870. As you can see 8# lasts me a long time so I wouldnít have to be overly concerned with lot to lot variations. I suspect with 4 or 5 pounds of H870 and an 8# keg of one of these milsurp powders Iíd be set for life, with some left over for the after life.

Iím curious, does the WC846 have the same flash bang characteristics as the H335 reportedly does. I havenít tried H335 but Iíve read it produces quite a muzzle flash. That wouldnít be good in this area, forest fires. I read the WC846 is also like BL-C(2) and was wondering if that might also be a good contender for the 7-08 or .284, especially in a semi-auto like the 100. I see WC852 is similar to IMR4895. Have you tried 4895 in the 7-08?

OK, Steveís back. There's been a lot of good info posted on the 7-08 from R-West and myself, though it may be a bit cryptic. Iíll admit, R has a lot more experience with it than I. While Iíve only loaded for 14 years I still consider myself a beginner. Some people Iíve met have been loading as long or longer than I am old, 48 years next month.

As for the 7mm RM Iíve only got a little experience with it because Iíve only had one for two years. As you read above Iíve only loaded it with 160 and 175gr bullets and have found the slow burning H870 to be an excellent powder for it, as if they made it just for the 7mm RM.

Personally Iíd suggest a 160gr FS (I donít know if they exist) and something like H4831 or R22, maybe even IMR7828 or H1000. These are only suggestions that you may want to explore. Iíve read of others that are firm believers in the 4350ís for the 7mm RM, but I think it might be a little on the fast burning side. You should also try the R19 youíve got.

Iím also not one to promote the premium bullets unless itís intended for dangerous game but, because you indicated your looking at FSís I followed suite. Iíd also suggest doing some research on Ballistic Coefficients for Ďlongerí range shooting. You may find a heavier, or longer bullet, may be more favorable, i.e., trajectory, wind bucking characteristics and retained energy. That is of course unless youíve got it just for moí power than the Ė08 at close range. Then again, the FSís may give you an equivalent BC as a heavier jacketed lead bullet. As for me, I have to watch my pennies so, expensive bullets like that are not in my budget, and especially so when developing loads and for maintaining proficiency. Buy 'em in bulk.
Out of curiosity, what rifle do you have chambered in the 7mm Mag (which one; RM, WSM, RUM, STW?) and, whatís its barrel length and, what do you intend to hunt with it? Which primers and cases are you/will you be using? How do you determine your seating depth and whatís your free-bore preference?

Bluemoon posted before I could cut and paste, heís got it right.
Bill
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