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 which powder is best for 338 ultra mag
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kholmes
Junior Member

Canada
44 Posts

Posted - Jul 02 2008 :  01:17:41  Show Profile Send kholmes a Private Message  Reply with Quote
which is the best powder to use for 338 ultra mag a guy was trying to tell me i was using too hot of powder h4831 i got 3 loads out of casing then one broke he claims to use different powder i am fairly new to reloading, but i also want as much out of it as i can 225 grain nosler

Bob from Idaho
Average Member



USA
99 Posts

Posted - Jul 02 2008 :  07:38:39  Show Profile Send Bob from Idaho a Private Message  Reply with Quote
H1000, 7828, 4831 and 4350 all deliver top velocities according to several of my manuals. I'm not quite clear on what you broke? My manual shows never exceed 93.5 grains of H4831 for a 225 grain bullet in the 338 Ultra-mag. What amount of powder are you using?

You can never own enough guns
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kholmes
Junior Member

Canada
44 Posts

Posted - Jul 02 2008 :  13:49:35  Show Profile Send kholmes a Private Message  Reply with Quote
it was 87 grains that i was using about an inch maybe a little less from the bottom of case it broke right in half
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MIKESBARRO
Advanced Member



USA
2843 Posts

Posted - Jul 02 2008 :  15:55:05  Show Profile Send MIKESBARRO a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You probably have a headspace issue. That's what caused the case to split like that. It is caused by setting the shoulder a little too far back and results in the case stretching when it fireforms itself in the chamber. Try backing your resiser die back off about a 1/4 turn. Size one case and see if it will chamber. If it does, back off slightly more until a resized case won't chamber. Then turn the die down slightly until that case will chamber. That should solve the problem.

Mike

Awards are like hemmoroids......if you live long enough, every asshole gets one.

Edited by - MIKESBARRO on Jul 02 2008 15:55:47
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Bob from Idaho
Average Member



USA
99 Posts

Posted - Jul 02 2008 :  18:53:08  Show Profile Send Bob from Idaho a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mike brought up a really good point. Just because a belted case headspaces on the belt doesn't mean you can't set your dies up so it headspaces on the shoulder. This usually brings out a little more accuracy from those cases also.

I'd also suggest annealing your cases around every fifth firing. Brass work hardens in the neck area and this is one of the causes for case splitting at the neck. Annealing is really simple. Just stand your cases up in a shallow pan (a cookie pan from the thrift shop works great) in a half inch of water. Use a propane torch to heat just the necks til red. Tip over with a screwdriver (they are hot). Let dry and load.

You can never own enough guns
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Tommy B
Advanced Member



USA
724 Posts

Posted - Jul 02 2008 :  19:23:12  Show Profile Send Tommy B a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have had good luck with R22,R25 and Retumbo. The big ultra mag cases crave large doses of slow burning powders. I have also found that hot loads in the RUM at such high pressures beats the brass up very fast. Like 2 to 3 loads the primer pockets are shot.

Iím not a hunter, Iím a population control specialist!
Long distance call? Dial 1-900-338-LAPUA
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mtmuley
Advanced Member

USA
1480 Posts

Posted - Jul 02 2008 :  20:21:29  Show Profile Send mtmuley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Bob, The .338 RUM isn't a belted case. mtmuley
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Ds28
Moderator



USA
3278 Posts

Posted - Jul 02 2008 :  21:27:35  Show Profile Send Ds28 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
im with Tommy B on this one

rl25 and retumbo

Thats what I have used on my 300 rum with good results

arguing over the internet is like the special Olympics....even if you win, you are still...special!
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Bob from Idaho
Average Member



USA
99 Posts

Posted - Jul 02 2008 :  21:45:41  Show Profile Send Bob from Idaho a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mtmuley

Bob, The .338 RUM isn't a belted case. mtmuley



Mt your absolutely right, don't know what I was thinking. Just put together a hundred 300 Ultra-mags for a friend a couple of weeks ago. Don't know what I was thinking. There's just getting to be to many "Mags" on the market now for an old guy.

You can never own enough guns
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mtmuley
Advanced Member

USA
1480 Posts

Posted - Jul 02 2008 :  22:12:21  Show Profile Send mtmuley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It is hard to keep track of the new cartridges. I am going to start loading a friends .338 Ultra this weekend. While I've loaded the .300 since 2000, the .338 is a bit different. Going to start with Barnes TSX FB and probably RL-22 and RL-25. Retumbo is on the list also. So are 225 gr Accubonds. (my reccomendation but I was over-ruled since I'm not buying components) I'll keep anyone interested up to date. Should be fun and easy since my buds rifle wears a brake. Mine don't. mtmuley
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woods
Advanced Member

USA
1990 Posts

Posted - Jul 02 2008 :  22:41:23  Show Profile Send woods a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey kyle

Did your case look like this



Mike is right it is a headspace issue, especially with the ultra mags which headspace on the shoulder. What happens is this:

1. The firing pin slams the case forward
2. The case moves forward until the case shoulder hits the chamber shoulder
3. The pressure expands the case outward to contact the chamber walls
4. The case binds or grips the chamber walls
5. The pressure forces the case head back to the bolt face
6. Since the case body is bound to the chamber walls and the case head has to move back against the bolt face, the case thins at the pressure ring
7. If it thins enough then it will split there and cause the case head separation

This is caused by excessive space between the case shoulder and the chamber shoulder before firing. With new cases it is inevitable (although you can jam the bullets on the first firings and mitigate it). If you full length resize and set the shoulder back every sizing it will accelerate the process.

How susceptible to case head separations you are is dependent upon how much headspace you have on new cases in your chamber and how you resize. That's why PFLR is preferable for longevity of brass.


When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others.

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Ds28
Moderator



USA
3278 Posts

Posted - Jul 04 2008 :  11:15:45  Show Profile Send Ds28 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Woods...Did you fire that case in the pic?

What kind of damage did it do to you and the gun?

arguing over the internet is like the special Olympics....even if you win, you are still...special!
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woods
Advanced Member

USA
1990 Posts

Posted - Jul 04 2008 :  11:38:25  Show Profile Send woods a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I did fire that case and it sounded funny. It ejected into my hand and then fell apart without further ado. One of those moments that are so startling that you remember it forever. Had a buddy that had one come apart and it boogered up the bolt face and blew part of his stock and magazine to hell, still no damage to him.

You see that indentation at the case body shoulder junction? That is typical of a case head separation. The best theory that I have heard is that the pressure escapes out the case head separation and goes forward and indents the case in order to escape out the bore.

I have split cases and felt with a paperclip to check for the beginnings of this and have found no way to detect this beforehand. That's why it is important to have a headspace gauge and know how much of a gap there is at the shoulder for new cases. If it is excessive then toss the brass after 5 loadings. If it is in the normal range of .005" to .015" range then the initial thinning should not be as much problem. Brass thickness in that area where case head separations occur is typically .035" or so anyway and I can not detect any brass thinning even when measuring that case in the picture. That area is where more pressure occurs and is at the line where the case goes from being supported by the chamber walls to being unsupported.


When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others.

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Ds28
Moderator



USA
3278 Posts

Posted - Jul 04 2008 :  11:46:17  Show Profile Send Ds28 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
you got lucky with that one

I have always just sized my brass to fit my chamber using a pflr. I guess I better get a headspace gauge just to check (which one do you use)

Thanks for the info

I did see the indention around the shoulder area. I thought that only happened when you did not have enough pressure to seal the case and got blow back

arguing over the internet is like the special Olympics....even if you win, you are still...special!

Edited by - Ds28 on Jul 04 2008 11:48:20
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kholmes
Junior Member

Canada
44 Posts

Posted - Jul 04 2008 :  13:34:12  Show Profile Send kholmes a Private Message  Reply with Quote
what is pflr and how do you use this headspace gauge never seen one before
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kholmes
Junior Member

Canada
44 Posts

Posted - Jul 04 2008 :  13:35:50  Show Profile Send kholmes a Private Message  Reply with Quote
my case looked exactly like that one same thing too shot ejected shell and broke apart in my hand
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