Reloader's Nest Forum
Reloader's Nest Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Reloading General
 Black Powder
 reloading 45 LC w/black powder
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2

Goat Roper
Starting Member

USA
5 Posts

Posted - Oct 21 2003 :  02:56:20  Show Profile Send Goat Roper a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have previously been reloading 45 LC cartridges with smokeless powder. I would like to load some with black powder just to see if I like shooting them. If all works well I think I may go to the darkside.

I have Pyrodex Select FFG. I will be using a 250gr. Desperado soft cast lead bullets. I am using Starline brass. I am reloading with a RCBS Rock Chucker press with the RCBS .45 cowboy dies. I am shooting a Ruger Vacquero 5.5 stainless and a Trails End Winchester 94.

I am looking for advice on the amount of the powder charge (and any other practical tips). I have more reading to do, but I would like to compare what I read with real live people who are actually loading and shooting. I have read that 37 grains is a "full load". I have also been cautioned that you cannot have empty space in the cartridge because the air can cause and uncontrolled explosion. In fact, you need a slight compression. I have heard of using popcorn as a spacer to allow you to use a lighter charge. I don't need a heavy charge. I want to use these rounds for cowboy action shooting. 800fps is fast enough.

What advice can you someone new to black powder cartridge reloading? The Old Goat Roper is all ears.

Goat Roper
Starting Member

USA
5 Posts

Posted - Oct 21 2003 :  23:52:18  Show Profile Send Goat Roper a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I read an article in The Shooting Iron
http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/si/colt45.html
which identified several loads for the 45LC using various powders. Anyone have any experience with any of these loads? Below is part of that review:

Pistol. My final test load was with Pyrodex Select, a special grade of RS made for the ultimate in accuracy and performance. Like Goex Cartridge, Select did not perform as well as some others in the pistol. With 24 grains, high velocity was 926 fps, and low velocity was 866. It grouped at about 3 inches.

Rifle. Pyrodex Select lived up to its name in the rifle. High velocity was 1168 fps, and low was 1118 fps. It was the second most consistent load tested, and grouped much like Pyrodex P -- 2 inches, point of aim, at 60 yards.

In this article he was using a Vacquero, the same as I am. The author found other powders to be more accurate in the pistol. The whole article is worth reading, which is why I included the web site address.

Any advice? I am looking for loads to test out and I would like to start with loads that other people have tried and found to be satisfactory.
Goat Roper Rick
Go to Top of Page

Goat Roper
Starting Member

USA
5 Posts

Posted - Oct 27 2003 :  01:04:39  Show Profile Send Goat Roper a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I loaded up my first batch of black powder rounds and fired them off this weekend. I wanted a somewhat lighter load. I made a measure with a 45 ACP cartridge and some copper electrical wire wrapped around in for a measure. I used a 2 foot section of half inch copper pipe that I tapered at the bottom so it would just fit into my 45LC cartridge. I topped it off with Farina (generic cream of wheat). Fired them both in the pistol and the lever action. Seemed to have a good feel and I could hear the target go "ding". Manageable recoil, but no mouse farts. I think that may be my formula. I tried some "full power" loads also. Didn't feel bad, but I don't see what I gain other than using more powder. I am using Pyrodex Select FFG. Wouldn't mind hearing from other people if they have other experiences or recommendations they would share.

Goat Roper Rick
Traveling over to the darkside.
Go to Top of Page

billyboy
Starting Member

6 Posts

Posted - Oct 30 2003 :  03:04:30  Show Profile Send billyboy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
loading real black powder actually stinks less than pyrodex, in case you havnt found out yet.
also,with both you have to wash your cases [and gun] after firing.

i just use a lee scoop and fill the case to the base of bullets seating depth plus a 1/32" for compression.

adding the farina is another un-needed movement in the process,imho
Go to Top of Page

J Miller
Starting Member

USA
2 Posts

Posted - Nov 01 2003 :  18:49:17  Show Profile Send J Miller a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I rarely shoot black powder. But all I have shot has been out of .45 Colts.
I have tried real black powder, and Pyrodex.
I much prefer the real stuff. I did not have good luck at all with the Pyrodex. It stinks worse than b.p. and the fowling was beyond terrible.
It just may have been a bad batch, but I won't buy any more.

I recently loaded up a hundred and seventy some .45 Colts with black powder and Remington factory 250gr lead bullets. Most were ballon head cases and I used 40grs of Goex 3F. It was a compressed load even in the ballon head cases.
To get the same compression with modern cases I dropped the load to 36grs of the 3F with the Remington bullet.

Personally I do not believe that you gain anything using the substitute powders. When I do use b.p., I only use the real stuff.

JMHO


I'm thinking, I'm thinking, don't rush me.
Go to Top of Page

Goat Roper
Starting Member

USA
5 Posts

Posted - Nov 03 2003 :  00:20:52  Show Profile Send Goat Roper a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I was expecting more fouling with the Pyrodex Select. Actually, I didn't think it was bad at all. That was my biggest concern with black powder/substitutes. I don't mind the clean up. I just didn't want to stop in the middle of things and clean up enough that I could go on shooting.

Goat Roper Rick SASS# 50522
Go to Top of Page

spottedhorse
Average Member



USA
143 Posts

Posted - Feb 23 2004 :  04:04:20  Show Profile Send spottedhorse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I loaded some 45 colts today based on the link above. I started with 40 gr, and reduced down by shortening my measure until it filled the case to aproximatly 1/16 inch above the bullet base. I don't know haw many grains we ended up with but they shoot great. Recoil is a bit brisk but managable, and fouling was not nearly as heavy as I had thought it would be.

Beauty is truth, and truth beauty.
Go to Top of Page

pireaux059
Average Member



USA
127 Posts

Posted - Jun 11 2004 :  07:33:43  Show Profile  Send pireaux059 a Yahoo! Message Send pireaux059 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yall a good set of scales are inexpensive & Necessary. I cant imagine loading any caliber by scooping up a caseful of powder. I can think of no better recipe for disaster. JD
Go to Top of Page

blue avenger
Senior Member



USA
291 Posts

Posted - Jun 11 2004 :  16:50:55  Show Profile  Send blue avenger an AOL message Send blue avenger a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Never use a scale for black powder or Pyrodex! Pyrodex is loaded by volume. There is to be no air space in any cartridge loaded with Pyrodex. Load density must be 100% by light compression. Case is either filled to 1/16 - 1/8 from top or a card or wad is added is the charge is to be redused. Never use a smokeless measure as it will crush the kernals and create unsafe conditions. Only use a volumetric measure made for black powder!

45 colt- 37 gr by volume, not weight. P is about 100fps faster then select, RS is inbetween

I AM THE VOICE IN MY HEAD
Greg

Edited by - blue avenger on Jun 11 2004 16:56:24
Go to Top of Page

n/a
deleted

67 Posts

Posted - Jun 13 2004 :  08:57:10  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If you try to use a powder dropper made for smokelss, most times it will not drop the correct volume because the granulation of the BP is usually larger than smokeless, even 3F will hang and loading anything but blanks with 4F is bad news.

I have not done any in quite some time but I loaded by weight and volume, don't even waste your time weighing anything. The only time you need to pull out a scale is to calibrate volumetric blackpowder measures if you have more than one so they give the same charge between them. To do this, you must use the same can of BP for all measures because weight of the same volume can vary between lots of powder.

I settled on a lighter charge of 2F rather than a full power load but it is imperative that you leave NO AIR SPACE in the casing. Easiest way to use reduced loads is to go here http://www.circlefly.com/ and order 1000 45 cal rifle/pistol 1/8" nitro card wads. Use these under the bullet as needed to make up the space differance. I didn't like shooting the heavy bullets all the time and used wads to allow the use of 180 grain cast bullets and 25 grains of 2F BP (I used Goex if anyone cares) nice light easy shooting load for plinking.

Normally nitro wads are not lubed but I have found that the following works very good. Get yourself a toilet seal ring w/o plastic liner/funnel, I only use Radiator Specialty Co. a/k/a Gunk brand because they have the proper blend and consistency. Pick up a cheap STEEL pie pan, ALK pans will not work, place on stove or hot plate and melt the ring down on as a low a heat setting as you can obtain and without burning/scorching the wax. Once melted, carefully roll the edges of the nitro wads in the wax and wipe any excess off as you bring them over the edge of the pan. When these waxed wads are used under bullets they wipe the bore on the way out leaving behind a thin layer of the wax. If you have a really clean bore, they will considerably reduce leading if shooting soft alloy at too high a velocity.

If you want to shoot BP in several guns througout the day and worry about rust, find a local machine shop supply or find MSC on-line and get a gallong of quality soluable cutting oil. Mix the oil as per mfg directions but DO NOT use chlorinated water a/k/a city water becuase this can destroy the rust prevention properties of the oil. When done shooting BP with a gun, swab the bore quickly with the soluable oil and you're good to go for many hours without worry. If you scrub the bore with the mix till it's clean, your pretty much completely worry free for many days. If you're concerned about price of the oil, a gallon will run you around $25 but makes on average 200 gallons of bore cleaner, better quality oil will make 330 gallon. If you consider the cost of commercial BP bore scrubs against the mixing your own, it's quite the difference.

Do it once & do it right.
Go to Top of Page

eldeguello
New Member

USA
35 Posts

Posted - Aug 05 2004 :  13:19:30  Show Profile Send eldeguello a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Pyrodex is NOT black powder! PYRODEX SELECT FFg is the equivalent of Pyrodex RS, and is too slow for useful ballistics from a revolver. A case full of it with a 250-grain bullet in the .45 Colt will barely break 700 FPS. Use Pyrodex "P" in pistols & revolvers. If you want to use black in a handgun, use FFFg. 777 FFFg might be good also, but I have not used it in handguns.

"It seems very difficult to impress most reloaders with the fact that every rifle is an individual, and what proves to be a maximum load in one may be quite mild in another, and vice versa." Bob Hagel, GAME LOADS AND PRACTICAL BALLISTICS FOR THE AMERICAN HUNTER, 1977

The inmates are still running the asylum!!

"If you are 20 years old and not a liberal, you have no heart. If you are 40 and not a conservative, you have no brain!" W. Churchill
Go to Top of Page

eldeguello
New Member

USA
35 Posts

Posted - Aug 05 2004 :  13:26:33  Show Profile Send eldeguello a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pireaux059

Yall a good set of scales are inexpensive & Necessary. I cant imagine loading any caliber by scooping up a caseful of powder. I can think of no better recipe for disaster. JD


WRONG!!! When loading BP, and in particular BP substitutes, volume measure is the RECOMMENDED method! Substitutes are MADE TO EQUAL B.P. ON A VOLUME FOR VOLUME BASIS, and their weights are not germane to the discussion! For example, Pyrodex can weigh as much as 80% of an equal volume of black, or as little as 70% of an equal volume of black, depending on which lot you have! If a person never reloads with smokeless powders, he/she has no need of a powder scale at all!

"It seems very difficult to impress most reloaders with the fact that every rifle is an individual, and what proves to be a maximum load in one may be quite mild in another, and vice versa." Bob Hagel, GAME LOADS AND PRACTICAL BALLISTICS FOR THE AMERICAN HUNTER, 1977

The inmates are still running the asylum!!

"If you are 20 years old and not a liberal, you have no heart. If you are 40 and not a conservative, you have no brain!" W. Churchill
Go to Top of Page

Bad Flynch
Senior Member

USA
297 Posts

Posted - Aug 25 2004 :  11:25:19  Show Profile Send Bad Flynch a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I must also advise you to not weigh Pyrodex. Although it is possible, to be technically correct requires more work than it is worth. Worst part is that weighing gets you nothing in the way of accuracy or uniformity.

Black powder is quite another matter. You can weigh it, but it also gets you nothing. Many people have tested this and given up.

The reference for black powder is not powder, but water. You shoot a volume of black powder that is the same as the equivalent weight of water. That is, 36 grains of water is the correct volume for a 36 grain load of black powder.

B.F.
Go to Top of Page

Victor Varminter
Starting Member

USA
2 Posts

Posted - Apr 02 2006 :  17:31:56  Show Profile Send Victor Varminter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey guys, ain't been here in a while.
Spend most of my time on varmint sites & Predator Masters.
Thanks for talking me outta trying bp/Pyrodex in my 45LC.Thank God you're still in my Fav' list
Tried muzzle loading for a couple years & it just isn't for me.Sounds like this would be more of the same.
Keep shooten', V.V.

Speed is fine
Accuracy is final

Edited by - Victor Varminter on Apr 02 2006 17:34:59
Go to Top of Page

gregwhite
Average Member



New Zealand
115 Posts

Posted - May 05 2006 :  20:57:27  Show Profile Send gregwhite a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I havn't loaded 45LC in black for a while but I have a tip. I met some folks loading black powder and filler on top. They used one of those Lee Load All (http://www.leeprecision.com/html/catalog/loadall.html). They put their powder in the powder side and the filler in the shot side. They used this to dispense the load into the 45 brass. Push the slide one way for powder and the other for filler. It seemed to work a charm. Just my 50c worth.
I would suggest the cream of wheat, polenta type filler is better than anything that can lodge in the barrel (card, felt, dacron) be wary of the latter as it could spell disaster.
Go to Top of Page

SKIP47
Starting Member

USA
7 Posts

Posted - May 06 2008 :  16:55:01  Show Profile Send SKIP47 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Fellas,
I've weighed both black powder,(2fg), and PyrodexSelect in loading for my .45 Colt S/A replica.
HOWEVER, I will first set the powder measure foe a pre-selected volume measure of BP which I intend to use, (in this case 35 grains of black powder, then dump it on to my scale pan. Then I'll weigh all the rest of the charges to what the initial weight indicated on the scale.
Regarding the Pyrodex Select, I'll use the SAME 35 grain volume setting which was used in loading 2fg black powder, again weigh the volume setting of same, then load the remaining cases with that displayed weight.
All I'm trying to do is to be uniform as I possibly can.
So far I've had pretty good luck as I consistently get 2-1/2" groups at measured 12 yards ( as long as I do my part).
Yes, I know the 12 yards isn't exactly a canyon to canyon distance, but its just target shooting.
Good shooting to all; and remember to vote. Firearms owner have one heck of a lot to lose if WE ALL don't answer the modern day version of the ''call to arms ''.
God Bless us and our Country...........

An Old Vietnam War Vet..........

PAR
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Reloader's Nest Forum © 2013 ReloadersNest Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.16 seconds. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.06