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Pilot 22
New Member
USA
12 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 06 2009 : 22:22:11
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| I've been told not to reload any steel cases like wolf,because it will cause damage to my dies or they will get stuck. Has any one tried this just for the heck of it with success or do you just pitch them? Thanks |
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IraqVet2003
Advanced Member
USA
1206 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2009 : 22:52:09
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| Look on youtube there is a guy who has done it successfully, he shows you how to do it as well. Vet |
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jighead45
Average Member
USA
134 Posts |
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Pilot 22
New Member
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2009 : 16:54:50
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| The You Tube video was great and in depth, and the article was good too. So It looks like with a little care great things can become accomplished. Thanks guys-Great Forum. Pilot |
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BISCUT
Moderator
2243 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2009 : 17:54:00
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FWIW -- only my 2cents -- WOLF is good cheap plinking ammo. Steel cases can maybe chip an already weak extractor. Other than that there is no reason not to shoot it. In most handguns extractors are east to replace and many are cheap. Glock is around $5. If it matters I have over 20k round of WOLF cheapo thru 9mm, 40SW, and 45ACP with no issue.
Most of you know I'm very opinionated when it comes to AR's. I strongly feel that any AR that will not reliably shoot Wolf is not worth keeping. I have Tier 1 (Colt, Noveske, LMT) and Tier 2 (Bushmaster, Rock River, Stag) and all handle Wolf w. no issues.
Off tangent -- all that said I would NOT be the guy reloading the steel cases. |
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ten2six
Senior Member
USA
246 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2009 : 21:04:20
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| Wait a minute Biscut...did you just lead me down a path...and then reverse directions? |
"Chances are, when we meet intelligent life forms in outer space, they're going to be descended from predators."
- Michio Kaku |
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dtknowles
Average Member
153 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2009 : 21:55:41
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S&B make boxer primed 9mm ammo with steel cases and I have reloaded some of those steel cases more than three times without so much as a split neck. They are brass colored so it takes a magnet to tell them from S&B brass cases. I have also reloaded CCI Blazer boxer primed aluminum cases. They are good for just one reload then they either split when you try to bell the neck for a second reload or they split when the second reload is fired. Actually I think some of them split when the first reload was fired. I did these reloading experiments about a year ago. The reloads were fired in a converted CZ52 and a Star BKS.
Tim |
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taiveson
Junior Member
45 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2009 : 22:46:45
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| Yes you can reload steel cases, I have done it for 223. I shot them in a 700 Rem. They were wolf steel cases. They worked fine the first time but on the second reload I had hard extraction but no split necks or other issues. Pilot22 any cases that are dirty may scratch your dies and if they are not lubed may get stuck in your dies. The steel cases are aneiled so as to be soft and expaned aginst the chamber walls and seal off expanding gasses same as brass. But steel will work harden faster than brass. Steel seems to have less spring back than brass and I belive that is were the hard extraction came from. The steel cases that I reloaded were only shot three times total. I did this 6 or 8 years ago just for ****s and grins. If all I had was one time fired steel cases and they were in good shape otherwise I would load them up at least one more time. |
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steve4102
Advanced Member
USA
811 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2009 : 19:08:51
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From an expert in ballistics and handloading.
Steve,
Steel is not as malleable as brass.
It tends to permanently deform in its internal matrix sometimes creating microscopic fissures/cracks which can fail catastrophically when subjected to that’s same high pressure again.
Since the condition of the metallurgical structure cannot be predicted one can never be sure that the material/metal has not been undermined to a critical level under the extremely high pressure.
It’s will also be hard to or even not possible, depending on the specific quality of the steel, to “resize” steel back to form, and since steel tends to retain its deformed size it will merely “spring back” if such action is attempted.
Regards
Johan Loubser
Ballistician
Ramshot/Accurate Powders
Tel: (406) 234 04 22 email: johan@ramshot.com
Western Powders Inc –– Miles City – Montana. |
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Paul B
Advanced Member
1681 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2009 : 14:18:10
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During WW-2,steel cased ammo for the .45 ACP was made and while used stateside, it was not used in either the European or Pacific thearters as they could and did rust even with the zinc coating and they were notorious for breaking the extractors on the 1911 .45 ACP handgun. Most, IIRC were made bt the Evansville Chrysler plant, the thr EC headstamp. I still have a couple in my cartrdige collection and yes, they damn well did break extractor. Ask me how I know that one. Fortunatly, 1911 extractors are easy to replace.
I won't touch steel cased ammo with a 10 foot pole.
Paul B. |
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BISCUT
Moderator
2243 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2009 : 14:40:02
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quote:
Originally posted by ten2six
Wait a minute Biscut...did you just lead me down a path...and then reverse directions?
You have me confused. No reversal meant. I feel its fine to plink with (just don't expect any level of consistency) but i would not reload it. Wolf ammo is generally loaded pretty weak. Getting over the fact that i would not put steel cases in my dies, I wouldn't think most reloaders would download to the lower levels Wolf does. A "normal" or "hot" load would certainly put additional stresses on the extractor.
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ten2six
Senior Member
USA
246 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2009 : 21:00:27
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Biscuit,
10-4. You almost had me going out to try the Wolf ammo test in my AR, and maybe some hand guns. But if I'm not going to reload it, why shoot it....
Keep the great info coming!!!!!!
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"Chances are, when we meet intelligent life forms in outer space, they're going to be descended from predators."
- Michio Kaku |
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dtknowles
Average Member
153 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2009 : 21:15:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Pilot 22
I've been told not to reload any steel cases like wolf,because it will cause damage to my dies or they will get stuck. Has any one tried this just for the heck of it with success or do you just pitch them? Thanks
To address your points one by one. The steel cases will not damage your dies or get stuck any differently than brass cases. If you reload dirty cases or size with standard dies without lube you will have problems with either brass or steel cases. I have not loaded Wolf cases but the S&B 9mm steel cases reload fine based on loading 20 cases three times. I did not pitch them I only have maybe a couple hundred, I have thousands of other 9mm cases and mostly load WIN brass for my 9mm. I do know that if all I had were these steel cases, I could make fine ammo that did not hurt my guns. Limited testing and your mileage may vary.
This Quote from an expert posted by another
Posted - Nov 08 2009 : 19:08:51
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"From an expert in ballistics and handloading.
Steve,
Steel is not as malleable as brass.
It tends to permanently deform in its internal matrix sometimes creating microscopic fissures/cracks which can fail catastrophically when subjected to that’s same high pressure again.
Since the condition of the metallurgical structure cannot be predicted one can never be sure that the material/metal has not been undermined to a critical level under the extremely high pressure.
It’s will also be hard to or even not possible, depending on the specific quality of the steel, to “resize” steel back to form, and since steel tends to retain its deformed size it will merely “spring back” if such action is attempted.
Regards
Johan Loubser
Ballistician
Ramshot/Accurate Powders
Tel: (406) 234 04 22 email: johan@ramshot.com
Western Powders Inc –– Miles City – Montana."
Sounds hypothetical, not based on actual experience or at least no actual test results were included.
To be fair I did not include much data from my testing. I do have chrono data and all rounds functioned without failures. I like testing and was only doing the testing for fun. Not like I was going to write an article or start a business. |
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carpintx
Starting Member
6 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2009 : 18:51:02
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I loaded approximately 20 rounds (40 S&W) using Wolf steel cases. Of course, they had Boxer primers. I used tungsten-carbide reloading dies and did not lubricate the cases.
They went easily through the dies with little evidence of any abrasion on the cases. After loading, I tested them on the range.
I haven't tried reloading those same cases again but I will certainly consider reloading any of the steel cases that I know have been once fired.
I used standard powder charges that I normally use with all my reloads.
My suggestion: If they have boxer primers, take them home and reload them. |
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Steel Cases
